Babe, What Do You Know About?
Babe, What Do You Know About?
Geopolitical Tensions
Max’s latest dinosaur escapades and Ella’s courageous ear-piercing adventure kicked off our episode with heartwarming family fun. Amidst our personal updates on foot recovery and shoulder issues, we transitioned into the weighty matters of global conflicts and power dynamics. From the Ukraine conflict and Russia’s aggressive airstrikes to the broader implications of the US-China rivalry, we unpack major geopolitical tensions that shape our world today.
Why does Trump’s stance on Putin keep shifting? We explore the motivations and possible consequences for U.S.-Russia relations and NATO alliances. Reflecting on our travels to China in 2017-2018, we delve into the evolving status of Hong Kong and the precarious relationship between China and Taiwan, alongside the U.S.'s strategic moves to minimize dependency on Chinese manufacturing and Taiwanese microchips. From technological advancements to military posturing, we examine the multifaceted rivalry between the US and China.
The humanitarian crises resulting from global conflicts demand our attention. We discuss the Israel-Palestine situation, North Korea’s isolation, and the complex web of international relations involving China and Russia. With a critical eye on moral and ethical considerations, we question the global community's response to these challenges. Join us for a thought-provoking journey through personal anecdotes and pressing global issues.
Connect with us at @babewhatpodcast for updates, interactions, and polls.
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Welcome to Babe. What Do you Know About the podcast with your favorite husband and wife, duo Sam?
Speaker 2:and Taylor. Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.
Speaker 1:Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way.
Speaker 2:So what did you and Max get up to while Ella and I were getting our ears pierced?
Speaker 1:We played with his toys. We also ordered some food in, so our daughter some mackerel bees in, and we started eating that and then I put on a dinosaur show and so he was just very, very happy it was just chill yeah yeah, and then, after the show, just back to playing with toys yeah, it's the life for a two-year-old.
Speaker 2:The ear piercing was fun. I I was super proud of ayla. She did really really well. She kind of was a bit sad after the first one but after like kind of gathering herself and preparing for the second one, she didn't't cry at all. She has complained in no way since, you know, getting that first one. So it's kind of fun. It'll be fun after a couple weeks when it heals and she can kind of pick earrings that she wants and be awesome. Just kind of a fun milestone I didn't think I would have for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think if we've done anything else over the last couple weeks. I feel like we did get busy with something last week and that's why we didn't record, but just kind of the haze of trying to do everything. Did someone get sick Ear infections? Yeah, there was a couple of ear infections that went around.
Speaker 1:How's your foot Update for everyone listening.
Speaker 2:It is doing well. It's still a bit swollen and and sore, but I've been walking on it for almost three weeks, I think, and I'm gonna attempt at playing a slow pitch supple game on saturday, so we maybe we'll see at that point how the foot is doing, but it is doing well. I learned that if you have small scars like mine because mine were what, what was it? Four like small incisions that they used a scope to do the surgery with, and they're small enough. But apparently if you cover the scars with the zip patches, like acne patches, it helps heal the skin and the scar. It's done a really good job. So I've been doing that and, yeah, it's going well. You still need to go to the doctor for shoulder issues, but I guess, you can't live with shoulder problems forever.
Speaker 2:You're like, watch me. Well, should we get into our topic for the day? Sure, okay, so we're going to try and tackle some of the bigger geopolitical tensions that are currently defining global landscape right now. So we're going to talk about the ongoing conflict in Ukraine to the intensifying rivalry between the US and China. These issues are shaping the future of international relations, security and daily lives.
Speaker 2:The conflict in Ukraine has displaced over 8 million people, creating one of the largest refugee crises since World War II. Has displaced over 8 million people, creating one of the largest refugee crises since World War II. China has increased its military spending by 7% just this year, bringing its defense budget to $250 billion. And in the Middle East, the potential for conflict is ever-present, with the Israel-Palestine don't even know if I would call it a conflict, but the issue there and then Iran's uranium enrichment getting closer to weapons grade levels than ever before. So these are just a few examples of the developments happening around the world, what they really mean, how do they affect global stability? What should we be watching for? Today, we're going to try and break down the top five geopolitical hot spots and explore not only the facts, but the implications and potential outcomes, geopolitical hotspots and explore not only the facts but the implications and potential outcomes. So, babe, what do you know about current geopolitical tensions?
Speaker 1:funny enough, not a lot. So I've spent so much of my life like being very informed and staying up to date and having opinions on it and just over the last like couple years I've been like trying to. Over the last like couple years I've been like trying to wean myself off of it, like on purpose yeah, on purpose, and even more so now that when the kids were sick and then I was sick and then you know you, you're healing up, it's kind of like what's happening?
Speaker 1:yeah, what's happening in the world and, at the end of the day, does it actually directly impact me right now and it? Can I do anything about it? And so I'd be kind of withdrawing a little bit on on the whole thing. So, yes, I, I get the, I know the general news because I still see it, but I don't dive into it as much as I used to and thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:I guess before we dive in like, have you preferred it?
Speaker 1:yeah, okay that's it, yeah, so I think, just less general frustration, less general anxiety. Unfortunately, you get kind of inundated with current political us stuff with the election year with the election year, so that's even harder to avoid.
Speaker 2:So I'm still having to deal with and that's always frustrating yeah, yeah, it has felt like the election has kind of overshadowed quite a bit of these conflicts that we're going to talk about today, so it is interesting, um, should we start with russia, ukraine, yeah, let's do it russia, ukraine war. So um, ukraine has recently made military advances into Russia. They've taken some of Russia's like how would you call it? Ownership over their control over, like Russian land, rather than just trying to prevent them from taking control over Ukrainian land.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did see that that they have taken the war into Russia and then it's kind of changing the whole dynamic of the thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Russia's intensifying airstrikes. If that I mean, it's been kind of hammering at that the whole time.
Speaker 2:But it is interesting and I know it's difficult to know exactly what is going on, what the social climate is in russia about the conflict. Of course we know, you know how the Ukrainians are feeling about it and they're feeling both hopeful and also like they need still a lot of help and support. But I am curious what you think about Americans's opinion on this conflict, like how it started and kind of how it's progressed, because it's been what?
Speaker 1:almost four years, right, almost yeah, I mean it's not talked about as much anymore on social media. I don't know if you've noticed that yeah, for sure and I mean it's kind of the same with israel, pucky israel, palestine thing it was like the most important topic in the entire universe for a good solid month, and now it's like barely even shared or spoken about.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's still, you know, protests and stuff that happen in new york, etc. But it's just not soaking in content anymore on social media. So it's it's very much a case, at least in the united states, like people's attention span can only last like four weeks and then it's on to the next thing.
Speaker 2:Next thing to be outraged about, right. So thoughts on, you know, liberal, conservative views of the war and America's involvement as it started those years ago versus now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the interesting thing to me is even before the beginning of this war.
Speaker 1:The interesting thing to me is, even before the beginning of this war, the, the gop, the republicans, used to be very strong, and against russia yeah, in particular in particular, like literally, it was like a talking point for, like their primaries, for many primaries, you know who's going to be the strongest guy against putin, who's going to be able to stand up to putin. In fact, like it was mit romney's biggest things about, how you know he's looked into her soul and knows that he's an evil man, kind of a thing you know. And then with trump kind of, the anti-russian sentiments started dying out, um, and trump kind of became pretty friendly with putin and defended putin multiple times against our own intelligence agencies and that's kind of changed the the dialogue on the rats in terms of um viewing yeah viewing russia as evil, but now just view them as just.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe Russia isn't so bad and Democrats are the worst thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you think Trump's motivation behind that shift in defense of Putin in particular, and Russia. Why do you think he did that?
Speaker 1:I don't know so before Trump got elected, and then during the first, like six to twelve months I had a like it, just a hope.
Speaker 1:I was like you know we, our relations with russia, can change significantly because of trump, and I was hoping there'd be like the americanization of russia which was like, hey, russians and putin and those in power look at the American way, look at capitalism, see how it's benefited so many people, and Russia becomes more Americanized and all of a sudden we have a massive trading partner with Russia and that could have been an amazing thing, but it kind of was the opposite.
Speaker 2:People are like I don't know if he's a dictator you know what I mean when their public opinion is like almost the opposite way. People are more accepting of communism yeah, but and dictatorship.
Speaker 1:And yeah, exactly, it's just weird it is weird because I think people just kind of turn off their logical side of their brain and the leader of their side is saying a certain thing. So therefore, hey, our team is now doing this thing and it doesn't have to follow any logical sense yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it has been interesting to watch because I do still see quite a lot of that. I've just like we're wasting money and sending money to ukraine and you know the NATO partners and people that are sending money and you know weapons and things to Ukraine. Their reasoning is like very similar to you know, liberal election reasons, which is we're in defense of democracy. The problem is is, if we allow this to happen with this one step, then you've crossed the line. Like, if we allow Russia to cross the line at all, it means that it's free game and we have another like World War Two situation, in that that's what Germany started doing. They started just being like this is mine now, and we've had like a world order pretty minus some conflicts here and there, but pretty much since the end of World War Two, and so it's been this like well, we have to defend them without full on going to war if possible, because we need them to prevail in order to kind of put Russia back in its place and keep people where they are. And there's a similar reason that people are like we have to not have Trump in, because we're trying to defend democracy.
Speaker 2:And it is interesting that, like the Democrats feel and the liberals feel like that's what they're doing. Every decision is to try and promote democracy and people in the conservatives have probably feel the same way that that's what they're also trying to do. That's interesting, just interesting to watch and observe, observe. So what do you think is on the horizon as far as where this conflict goes? So we know we have deepening sanctions, we have, you know, nato just kind of like at the ready should russia dip its toes deeper into attacking an actual nato ally. I don't know, what do you think is on the horizon for where this goes?
Speaker 1:I think Russia doesn't succeed in this war unless it pulls out some bigger weapons, which then will create a world war. So this would be my guess is that there's going to be more and more options given to Putin to have an off-ramp to this war.
Speaker 2:In a way that helps him to save as much face as possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I don't know what that looks like or when that looks like, but I definitely think that that is looking like. That would be. My guess is the most likely scenario.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be interesting because it's almost like that sunk cost fallacy at this point where it's like clearly, you know, no one's supporting this. It hasn't really, it's just resulted in a lot of russian lives being lost and like the, the sanctions and the you know the international response to it. But I feel like, because I already dipped my toe in, like I just have to keep going. It will be interesting to see what it takes and that's what I'm curious about is like to have sit down negotiations and like have a peace agreement. It is just, I just can't think what it would be exactly that would result in that without, like, some concession from yeah ukraine I think one of the last things putin is waiting for is to see if donald trump gets re-elected.
Speaker 1:Probably true, actually. Well, what do?
Speaker 2:you think happens in either event. So if donald trump gets re-elected probably true, actually well, what do you think happens in either event?
Speaker 1:so if donald trump is re-elected, I think putin will try cut some sort of deal with donald trump with ukraine. Well, yes, to end the war and I'm using a quotation marks here to end the war, but to give russia pretty much everything they've taken so far and maybe some other things. And so it's like, hey, yeah, I'm ending the war, but also Russia has taken pretty much everything they wanted to at this point.
Speaker 2:Just let them keep it.
Speaker 1:And then Russia will probably regroup and then go to war in like 12 and 16 years' time again. That'd be my guess If Trump wins.
Speaker 2:Before. It's interesting. It will be interesting to see because I think that that might result in the breaking of us alliance with the rest of the nato allies. Because even if trump kind of agrees to that and like supports it, I don't think the nato allies will and I don't think ukraine will agree to it. That's been their whole thing is like no, we're all Ukrainians, none of us wants to be Russian and so we're not gonna leave anything behind. But who knows, like maybe it gets to the point. But I do think that there might be a break between the rest of the NATO allies and what Trump tries to leave the US to do yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1:I just feel like the US brings in. So the the united states spends in terms of world spending on military, they spend about 40 percent and the rest of the world is that other 60 percent. So that gives you an idea of how big the united states military is. I don't think that nato would break with the united states. They would just wag their fingers and complain and say how they don't like this. But I don't think it'll be like an official like the United States and NATO, you know breaking ties here.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I feel like they might do it, for not that I mean, unless the US starts like threatening them, I think they might still do it, because Trump is supposed to be a temporary leader. Like perhaps they would still be like, well, we don't agree, we're not going to do anything. I don't know if that's the quite as reduced as like finger wagging, like I don't know that they would do much but they wouldn't like sign an agreement or be like a proponent of an agreement, but it would just be interesting to see. So what do you think happens if he doesn't get elected?
Speaker 1:I think it goes on the different off-ramps. So the off-ramp again with Trump would be, you know, the ending of the war, but with Russia able to getting a lot of gains because of it. If Harris becomes president, I feel like Putin's going to know that the positive off-ramps are not going to be as dope, and so I think again, I don't know what those off-ramps look like, but they're not going to be. Congratulations, you fought a good war, here's your spoils.
Speaker 2:You know, get back to where russia is and but figure out like hey, we're going to end the sanctions and we're going to you know, connect you up with the you know world trade and yeah, like, try to try to have like some sort of carrot after sending them back to their pen, so to speak. It'll be interesting either way. I just I do hope things, and I mean it sounds like we're we're kind of on the tail end, I'm hoping, with the conflict hoping well again.
Speaker 1:Or or it's a transition to a world war where it's like maybe putin is essentially feeling like you know, his life story is coming to an end and he wants to go out with ready to go for it, yeah so you just don't know hope not.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, let's talk about china, taiwan relations.
Speaker 2:So that's like a a rough one and it's also complicated.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people don't super, super understand this and I think you know I wouldn't say that I I understand it as well as other conflicts, but china has increased military activities right there near Taiwan and we've had some political leaders I think Pelosi was one of them that has like visited Taiwan in a way that like kind of toe dips like outside of that semi-neutral territory that the US has been able to kind of like pretend to maintain to China, and I just I don't see how it kind of again, it just depends on the people on top.
Speaker 2:Like I don't see how should Taiwan like, should there be a conflict that arises, I don't see how Taiwan like comes out on top without and that's not like there's not NATO protecting Taiwan. You know what I mean protecting Taiwan. You know what I mean. Nato is specific to Russia and China is not one of those things that like we feel like we'd get pulled into as directly as like an attack on a NATO ally, ally. But I, yeah, I just I'm like I don't. It depends on how, how willing the Chinese oligarchy is to just reap mass destruction and the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I went to China. Was it 2017 and 18?
Speaker 2:Yes, Something like that.
Speaker 1:And back then Hong Kong was its own sovereign, like it wasn't part of China. So I could fly into I'd have to have a different visa or slash pass and stamp into hong kong and then I'd go into shenzhen from there or go into china from there, and then soon after that I forget when it was, but it was pretty soon after that china essentially just swallowed up hong kong.
Speaker 2:it just said it's you know you're not this special little exception anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah you're not the special exception anymore and no one else stopped it. Everyone else just was like whoop, you know that's yeah you know that sucks because I mean, when you look at the history of it, it's, you know, was kind of like a stepping stone to china and from the good old colonial days, and Taiwan is kind of similar in terms of that. It used to be part of China. The people in Taiwan don't feel like they're part of China. Right when? What was it?
Speaker 2:It's similar to Russia and Ukraine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a civil war. The people the Taiwan left during that civil war and they became their own country. Then China still said you know, they're still part of China. Even though they say they're not, Even though they have no governance there or anything there, they still believe that they're part of China and so they're just essentially waiting for the right time to Hong Kong. It essentially, but we don't want that. So it's more like Hong Kong was more of a British thing, whereas Taiwan we have a lot of trade with and so the United States doesn't want that, because we'd rather deal with Taiwan and probably our strength in the trade and our ability to feel like it's more of a free trade country, Whereas if it falls under China it complicates, especially since Taiwan has a lot of microchip manufacturing.
Speaker 2:Everything relies on that.
Speaker 1:I was going to say yeah, like the foundation to modern electronics. So it's kind of a military strategic thing and that's kind of like.
Speaker 2:that is feels like the only reason it hasn't been Hong Konged just yet it's like this mutually assured destruction of like the US and China being like Don't put your toe in there Because it's going to be real bad, it's just equal enough or scary enough that China won't fully commit to just going for it and the US won't fully commit to separating it Because they're nervous about what that looks like. But I think at some point someone starts to feel like a bit more on top, a bit more like advantaged, and that's when someone will kind of make the move. The US will kind of solidify the separation or try to help do that, or China will just be like okay, I think this is worth it to us. And that's why I say I do feel like the people on top have a lot of sway over how exactly this goes, but it has felt like it's starting to slowly ramp up potentially to something that like can't be ignored yeah, all right, here's my guess.
Speaker 1:This is again total guess, like the, the other thing, the russian thing. My guess is that so what has been happening is the united states has been moving a lot of its manufacturing and and its imports away from china, so to india, to pakistan, to other countries, and then also trying to reduce its dependence on taiwan on especially, especially on microchips, and moving them here locally as a military strategic thing, not just a trade war kind of power move. And so there's going to become a tipping point, probably within the next, I don't know say 10, 15 years, where the United States doesn't need Taiwan as much anymore.
Speaker 2:And therefore can wash its hands of the situation.
Speaker 1:And then, in addition, china, and then, in addition, the United States isn't worried about losing a manufacturing partner in China because of so many of US companies have moved their manufacturing either back to the United States or to other countries. So that's been an ongoing thing since 2070, 2018, I think the shift away from China so I don't think we're more than 10 years away from that being positive tipping point, and then I think Taiwan is not going to have the backing and support of the United States, and then China may Just go for it. Go for it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that segues really well into the third thing we're going to talk about, which is kind of more the strategic rivalry between the US and China. And so we have a technology war. We do have trade tensions. Right now there are military posturing activity happening in the Indo--pacific region by both the us and china, and then there are some south china sea disputes. So the south china sea is kind of like a flash point in the relations. And and then there's also like the global influence question, like things like tiktok and you know cultural things. So you kind of have some thoughts on on this as well, like the this perceived economic way of life war.
Speaker 1:Yeah, based on your like visits there oh man, I have an old opinion on this, from when I went there yeah. So, man, I was shocked at how advanced china was and I guess I should say where I went to in china. I was in the pearl city delta area, so it's like there's like hong kong and then shenzhen, shenzhen and guangdong, which is like this it used to basically be a fishing village, like 30 years ago, and then just blew up as like the international manufacturing center of the world.
Speaker 2:The world yeah.
Speaker 1:But anyways, like it's just the size of the cities, the scope of the infrastructure, the technology used, it was shocking, like I've been to every big city in the United States and it just looked like the United States was already behind significantly in size and scope and technology and smart infrastructure. So it was. I mean, it's obviously more to a country than that. The United States, as I talked about earlier, has an insane amount of military spending and our military capabilities are so far and above everyone else's.
Speaker 1:but just the not the rest as far, yeah, just like our manufacturing capabilities are more expensive and sluggish, and one of the benefits and I'm not saying communism is great, but one of the benefits of essentially having a one viewpoint government, like a dictatorship almost is that they can do things quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're very efficient because you don't have the gridlock that a democracy kind of inherently has.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they're missing a lot because of that. So there's the negative, which is, you know, you get a bad leader or bad party or bad group, think, and all of a sudden you've got mal and you got right millions and millions of people are dead. So it's it's. There's that negative side, but when things are going well and they're focusing on infrastructure and building and technology and um producing, it's pretty impressive. It really was. But again then COVID happened.
Speaker 1:Then the supply chain issues happened around the world because everything was shut down and China got absolutely hit insanely hard because of that and their economy has really struggled because of it and they've been dealing with their own real estate and inflation and banking and financial issues but like societal unrest as a result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:However, you know it definitely is where they're going.
Speaker 2:Is is pretty intimidating when it comes to their ability to grow an economy yeah, I feel like this cultural war has been very interesting too, because I felt like they you know the chinese tried to increase their cultural significance and acceptance and interest, pretty unsuccessfully for quite a while and then now not like they've done it very successfully and it's kind of a war of algorithms and eyeballs as far as just like how, like what, making their product and their and essentially like tiktok's real main, like actual product that's.
Speaker 2:It's the algorithm and and it being like more lucrative for creators and so they have a vested interest in not just a vested interest, it's like a huge pinnacle of society and how society runs and is influenced in the west is based on like this thing. And so I'm curious your opinion on the ruling that tiktok has to sell to an american company and if you feel like that was a warranted move, if you feel like that's the right move and what you think will actually happen, if they will actually do it or not this is gonna sound terrible, but actually I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that was the right move. I don't know what the outcome is, and it's kind of terrible. I I'm it's hard to know yeah, I feel pretty dumb when it comes to that question, to be honest yeah, I mean, half of it is we're not tiktok consumers, really, and for me it's.
Speaker 2:I go back and forth. It depends on, like, what information is presented, and sometimes I'm like, oh, that is really dangerous and concerning. And then I'll like watch some of the interviews by and, unfortunately, like just the state of congress. Really, the juxtaposition between, like the ceo's answers and like how they're asking questions and how dumb they seem, just made me be like, oh, like they're, it's just doesn't seem to be really any evidence behind the fear of this is just that they don't control it. That's lame, and maybe, though that is the point is to like convince me. You know, but I do feel that cultural influence being like very strong from china, and I I feel like that will be heavily leveraged in the coming years, as far as just seeing how things settle with this strategic rivalry you know, the people I interacted with in China were awesome.
Speaker 1:So and I feel like that's the case for pretty much every time you travel somewhere, most of the time you go meet, you know, people from that area, whether you're in Portugal or Costa Rica, or we go to the Caymans or Hawaii, the United States and California. Most of the time when you meet with normal, regular people, they're all great, they're all just. We all just kind of want the same sort of thing. We want to work hard, we want to be rewarded for hard work, we want time with our families and we want, you know, to be able to rejuvenate and relax. That's pretty much what 90, I feel like, of the world wants on some level. So I I really enjoyed my time interacting with the people in China and I would hope that there is more of a blending of cultures moving forward. You know, where they see the pros of, like the freedoms that we experience in the West.
Speaker 2:Human rights priorities yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:And then, in China, though, that they'd see the value of. They see the values of like things, like freedom of speech, and they see the values of, of art and of things that are. So let me take that back. I hope the the United States, the people in the West, will see the benefits of what China can bring as well which are things like community focus.
Speaker 1:So it was very apparent that every person that I spoke to that, even though they had all these other goals for their lives, there was still the background goal of I'm doing this because this is going to make china great that was still part of why and their motivation to do things.
Speaker 1:They're like, yes, this, this, this and this, I'm getting all these benefits, but also it will make china great. And I think you know that sort of attitude is very valuable. You know like I'm doing this because it's great for me and it's great for my family, but also it's really good for my community and that community becomes bigger. You know, not just your neighborhood, not just your state, but also you know your country.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just interesting to me. How do I want to put this? I think that China could benefit a lot from things like human rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion. That's a big one that's not allowed there. And but, to be honest, things are so messy in democracies right now. I doubt it's not a great representation of like yeah, you should for sure give your people free speech. This is what it results in.
Speaker 2:It doesn't feel like a great like oh that, because right now, like it is a bit of a mess, but that's democracy kind of goes through cycles of of like real benefit and growth and beauty behind freedom of speech, and so that's my like sad anecdote, I guess, which is just like, yeah, I would hope that they would be interested in that because that's I think that humans deserve that and to it. But I feel like even my open like if I were to try and put myself in their shoes and in their paradigm, I feel like my like interest in the society that's kind of resulted might not be super high, depending on exactly what you're exposed to. But yeah, be interesting, okay. So about the middle east?
Speaker 1:oh, do we have to just a little bit.
Speaker 2:So we have iran's nuclear program and the risks that it poses both to the region and, obviously, global security as well. We have these kind of covert toe-dippy attacks between Israel and Iran or Iran-backed groups. And then we have kind of shifting dynamics in the Middle East as far as you know, agreements between, like, israel and different Arab states and things, and the US is a lot more involved in the region right now than it has needed to be in a while and it's kind of trying to be touchy, as far as it stands, on Iran as well. And then there's the huge astronomical we kind of mentioned this briefly earlier which is the humanitarian impact of all these different conflicts on children and innocents in particular. So there's a lot kind of going on every day. There's like oh, there was another exchange of missiles, but they're both satisfied now because they both got off their couple missiles to feel like they responded. I think. Think both parties Iran and Israel are like trying to posture more than they are trying to actually engage in like a full-scale conflict. But at the same time at some point it does push over into like now, we kind of got to go for it now.
Speaker 2:And then this Israel assault on the Gaza Strip in reaction to the Hamas attack in October. It's coming up on a year Like the impact to humanity and innocence has been inconceivable. Like people who have been there who are trying to portray any semblance of like what it is like to be there right now is it feels pretty impossible, just like the the sheer scale of a human suffering and need, and that's why you have so many people you were saying earlier, like you know, the israel palestine thing like hasn't been. I think in my circles it's been every single day. I still see stuff, but I'm in my algorithm and in my groups, like I'm.
Speaker 2:There's a smaller group of people, not as many people, are still talking about it, but the people that are still talking, that are like, really still talking about it.
Speaker 2:They're going to protest, they are going to vote, they're going to vote and hold the left in particular, accountable for perceived human rights violations and like not prioritizing this crisis to be stopped. And it is just interesting because international relations are complicated, they're very complicated, because you're trying to do this chess of like. If I do this, then this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and it's kind of impossible to do, but you, you have to do it and the more information you know which is classified, you know that informs the decisions by the people on top usually, and you can't necessarily like pass along that reasoning or those statistics or those calculations onto just like the general public, and that makes things difficult. But the whole thing is it feels a bit of a mess to me and it makes me very, very nervous, because you can't allow Israel to be taken over or attacked, but also Israel has to be held more accountable for its manner of war and they're not following just war theory in any way or international agreements upon like how they engage with innocence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if you could count how many times at the Democratic National Convention the conflict was mentioned, it's probably less than on one hand. Yeah, if, if at all, I actually don't remember it being mentioned.
Speaker 2:In fact, the only thing I remember hearing it mentioned is someone complaining that it wasn't mentioned I think it was mentioned at two or three times, but they were like astronomic, like way more speakers than yeah, I mean, and I think, it's because they're touchy right. They're trying to avoid yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is this is going to my point, which is that it's no longer a topic to be outraged about, like in terms of like, yes, it's an you can't be outraged by it's, it's a horrible thing, but it's it's no longer like a trending thing that can be used, I feel. And then I was having those thoughts the other day because I was kind of asking that question like why, why is it no longer trending with the left? And I feel like it's because the left or the current administration, so President Biden, cannot do any more to change Israel's mind on what they're going to be doing, and what they're doing is basically leveling Gaza and clearing it out and making it essentially A massacre or a genocide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no more. There's going to be no more Hamas there, there's going to be no more terrorists there, but at the the same time, all the innocent people are being affected by it as well, and I feel like the the current administration doesn't feel like it has the ability to change that, and so, without what their political play is is just don't talk about it. That's pretty much. It just don't talk about it because there's nothing we can do about it right now and people don't want to hear that and when israel comes back and says we're done, then you know there's going to be a whole.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a whole big issue and topic again and we'll swoop in and give humanitarian aid to what's left and help rebuild it and blah, blah, blah blah. That's when the left will be able to jump right back into it. But that's to me feels like what the situation is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't disagree, and it's just disappointing. And I think in our episode about this, like, we grappled or at least I grappled with like, this idea of like is it not worth it, though? Like the sheer amount of people and the astronomical skew towards like innocence and children and babies, like is it not worth? But again, I don't, I don't see the calculations, I it's just hard, it's hard to be like yes, they're important and they're not important. Then these, this group of people that would be affected and this outcome that would likely happen, Like it's difficult to weigh the worth of like lives.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean that is. It's a horrible question, right, and so my value system is that every life is valuable and is the same, you know like, given the same chance. It doesn't matter what nationality they are. However, according to governments and people in power, some people are more valuable than other people yeah and the palestinians have not been deemed valuable enough. That's just as sad as that sounds, and yeah, we cannot do right or wrong, yeah we personally cannot change that like I mean we can try, we can.
Speaker 1:I mean we can try as hard as we want and do those protests and be part of those protests and try continue to keep the topic in the public eye. But we're here in the United States and if our administration still refuses to draw a line to a certain degree or for them they understand what drawing that line does they've made the calculation that it is not worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which just sucks, because we're not privy to that. You know, they don't, they, they don't explain, hey, by the way, yeah, we'd love to go and, you know, send our army to take over control over israel.
Speaker 1:Control israel but then this is what it'll do, israel will do this, and then we won't be an ally with israel, and then iran will do this, and then blah, blah, blah, blah. That maybe that's. There's a whole chain of things that we just don't understand. But and I think also we wouldn't agree with that, you know, we would not everyone would yeah exactly, so I don't know, it's stupid yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2:It's true, though, that the us has demonstrated like time and time again that it will, and it kind of has to, but it will weigh, you know, some lives and people's well-being like over others. So like the the dropping of atomic bombs in world war ii in japan on innocent people, just as like another demonstration of like well, sometimes we're saying dropping the bomb, yeah there are means to an end and they're worth the price yeah, we're stopping the war, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I feel like it's one of the reasons why religion is important to people. This is kind of sound silly, but sidestep yeah yeah, because I mean you.
Speaker 1:You think about where we're from in south africa and how many people are suffering in South Africa. It's millions Yep, from hunger, starvation, from not having enough, from murder and violence. And that's just South Africa. We can talk about all the countries bordering South Africa also struggling even worse, and not nearly enough is being done to even help a 10th of those people and they're suffering and they're dying. And the people in Palestine are suffering and dying and I feel like religion helps people cope with that because, basically, you go well, you know it's not about this life, it's about you know heaven and the next life.
Speaker 1:So you know, yes, they have their temporary trial and their temporary pain now, but they'll be able to be fulfilled and happy forever somewhere else, and I think that almost justifies a lot of turning a blind eye or cope.
Speaker 2:There's a way to make. The dissonance between the cost of human life is astronomical, it's not measurable, it's invaluable and it's like an attempt to make it so that it is measurable. And I find that religion has done kind of the opposite for me. But I agree that people just kind of use whatever tools are at their disposal that they're exposed to to just make sense of the messiness that is the world. And certainly the world is not in its worst state than as it's ever been. It's been worse before and could get certainly worse in the future. It goes through these ups and downs and we just have a lot more knowledge of it as well. But it is just.
Speaker 2:I think the frustration with these conflicts is that we have the resources. That doesn't make this necessary. There's enough food to feed everyone, there's enough money to take care of everyone, there's enough work that everyone could work like in the world, and we just don't have the system and the means and the power to like. It's solvable but it's not solvable and I think that's super frustrating. That causes a lot of difficulty, I think, in the human brain to be like it doesn't have to be this way. It literally could be different, but it just isn't. It doesn't feel achievable with the current systems and yeah, well, should we talk about the last one what's the last one?
Speaker 2:north korea's nuclear program yeah, I don't think I have too much to say about this because it's just this big blob of the stress.
Speaker 2:That's been a big blob of stress and for a long time.
Speaker 2:But certainly the coziness between Russia and North Korea, especially recently, is not, it's making the blob, you know, bigger and more scary. But North Korea has had recent missile tests, not where they should be doing any of those, and we do have sanctions in. North Korea has had recent missile tests, not where they should be doing any of those, and we do have sanctions in North Korea. But we can talk more about this, but they haven't been that effective because there's like an absolute, you know, death grip on the people and it doesn't really matter if it affects them or not. And let's see. I think the region's security is at risk with South Korea and Japan and of course these countries have a vested interest in containing the blob of stress and then other implications of North Korea's nuclear program as far as things like mutually assured destruction and world war and nuclear warfare in which everyone dies. But how long has it been? I couldn't, I don't, I couldn't even tell you how long north korea has been kind of in this lockdown state that it is in since I can remember.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so 30 decades, 40 years, yeah I wonder what it would take to even like. I just feel like we have had almost like no toe dips as far as like bringing them to a negotiating table or even like trying to figure out north korea, I think. I think the last time I remember anyone really trying to affect that relationship at all was the obamas. I remember there was something going on as far as like trying to at least meet and travel there and stuff.
Speaker 1:Trump went there.
Speaker 2:Yes, he did Very different tone but it has been, I think, hard for anyone to be like where do you even begin to bring a place like so locked down, so like totally gripped by? You know the whims of really one person. How do you even start, like, where do you even start to try and get to where, like anyone would be willing to compromise, you know yeah, I think one of the issues is is north korea and china have extensive trade?
Speaker 1:yes, we have sanctions everywhere else, but if you have trade with China and trade with Russia, do you really need the rest of the world trade to have an economy that at least can survive? Absolutely, you're fine, and China sees it as what's that? So in Survivor remember the show Survivor Absolutely, you've got a shield. You've got someone else out there in front. That is the target. So do you want to explain the strategy?
Speaker 2:yeah, essentially like you. You pick. If you're like, if you feel like you're a pretty strong player and that you'd be a pretty good contender to win, inevitably, as you get further and along in the game, people will look to take you out because they don't want you to win, they want themselves to win. And so the strategy behind it is that if you feel like you could be strong and in the running to potentially win the game, that you keep someone that looks better and is more noticeable and stronger and a bigger threat around, because then they're not looking at to take you out. They're looking always to take that next person out, and so you try to keep your shield along as long as possible and it just kind of depends on your judgment, like how strong you are in comparison when to take them out, as opposed to like then actually going up against them at the end.
Speaker 2:But it is this idea of like you're.
Speaker 1:You keep a bigger problem or a more shiny problem around so that, like eyes are not on you yeah, so china, I feel, keeps korea alive and propped up because they can use it as a quote-unquote shield or surrogate in a lot of these things like they're worse than us, yeah korea can be the bad guy. Korea is the bad guy. North korea is the bad guy. Let me clarify I'm not talking about south korea north korea is the bad guy.
Speaker 1:Look at them with their nuclear weapons and they're threatening and they're, you know, horrible treatment of their people and man. Look how horrible they are and we don't do that.
Speaker 2:And then when?
Speaker 1:north korea could be the catalyst for someone else to like north korea, attack someone else. It's like, oh man, north korea, that's so terrible. Why'd you do that? And you know china can use north korea. I think that's. That's why north k, north Korea, is able to stay in existence and why China trades so extensively with them, which is dangerous, right, but the United States does that too. We've been doing that since the end of World War II in our fight against communism and Russia. All the Cold War was pretty much that vietnam and all around the world really as there were just so many different sneaky, underhanded political moves and, you know, propping up governments around the world that the united states did to fart off communism and russia's influence around the world yeah, like north korea is a small country but it does have 26 million people and I was just kind of thinking like why, you know, the us isn't going to do anything to like damage or affect that.
Speaker 2:I think again, it's just I would curious like what exactly the number is. Is it like less than a million people in Gaza that were like fine with that sacrifice, versus like oh, we could just go and end this threat pretty quickly. It just costs 20 million lives that are already miserable, and like it's just interesting to try and be like well, where is the line? And I think the line changed as and shifts with who's in power and what their values are and yeah power and things.
Speaker 2:But it is just interesting to contemplate of like the, the us typically will not get rid of threats, even though, like that would be the simplest stalinist thing to do, which is like there's a threat, it's gone at whatever cost, so I don't have to worry about it down the road. But it just is against american and western quote-unquote western values.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like that's kind of what the whole korean war was about. About, right, um, and in fact it was. It was actually very close to going china's way. Uh, you know the communist way until the. United States was able to send enough support and push them back all the way to where you know now the border of. In fact, they almost got them all the way. They almost cleared the whole of Korea out, and then China had sent enough support that now it is where the line is today North.
Speaker 2:Korea.
Speaker 1:South Korea. But yeah, that's a perfect example of the Western ideals versus the communist ideals. Kind of there's a direct line right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and unfortunately I don't think that necessarily. You know, the Western ideals represent all people in the West and vice versa. And because, like for me, I see like, oh, we like value human rights and these, you know, the lives of innocents, and yet we'll allow thousands of children to get shot with no change, like in our own country, because we're we're like, yeah, we really value innocence and children, but do like, do we? How much do we? You know at what cost? And like, americans are not willing to currently to pay the cost. Well, I should say the representatives making the decisions are not willing to pay the cost to protect those lives. But it's just interesting. I think there's a lot of like hypocrisy and dissonance in the west and in the east and that complicates things a little bit further. But I think it's a pretty fair generalization of, like the differences between how different systems would handle and do handle these things. Either way, way stress balls. We gotta go find a deserted island or something. Thanks for listening to the Babe. What Do you Know About? Podcast.
Speaker 1:Remember to rate, subscribe and review. Three, two, one, yeah.
