Our Mass Shooting Scare

As the sun rose on a day that promised normalcy, a hoax at Southern Utah University shattered the illusion of safety for our youngest sibling and countless others. This week, we're peeling back the layers of emotions that entangle us when the sanctity of our schools is threatened. Hear the stories that don't make the headlines, from the frantic texts that leave parents grappling with impossible choices, to the personal connections that transform abstract news into a palpable nightmare.

We traverse the complex landscape of our nation's educational institutions, where the echo of Sandy Hook's tragedy lingers and legislative inertia on gun control fuels a desperate cry for empathy and action. Through gripping firsthand accounts, we confront the realities of school lockdowns—students leading amidst chaos, teachers summoning courage from shock, and communities wrestling with the psychological aftermath. Our conversation extends a hand to those who've faced such trials, honoring their resilience and advocating for the support they deserve.

Wrapping up, we step into the heated arena of gun control debate, not with statistics and rhetoric, but with the poignant reflections of those who've stared down the barrel of this issue. We share Dean's lockdown tale, a testament to the human spirit's capacity to find calm in crisis. This episode isn't just a call for change; it's a heartfelt plea for a world where education is synonymous with safety, and where the happiness we champion as a society is not marred by the sound of gunfire echoing through our halls of learning.

Transcript

Sam: 0:10

Welcome to Babe. What Do you Know About the podcast with your favorite husband and wife, duo Sam

Tayla: 0:16

and Tayla. Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.

Sam: 0:24

Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way.

Tayla: 0:34

So, on top of already feeling bad for smacking Max's head on the ground yesterday, he had just another completely unrelated head accident today, because yesterday, when I was trying to take his shoes off after we got home, I just I don't know, but I took his legs out from under him, essentially, and he landed smack bam back of his head right on the ground poor thing. And then did you see the incident report like as it happened.

Sam: 1:03

Yeah, so I don't usually look at the. I see notifications from the daycare, you know, throughout the day, but this one it says there's an incident that happened. So I was like, okay, I've got to click on the notification and I was like smacked his head.

Tayla: 1:17

So I hadn't seen it because I was commuting, back in, so I was driving, so I didn't look at my phone. But as I back in, so I was driving, so I didn't look at my phone. But as I went inside to go and get him the greeter or whatever, she was like, hey, did you see the incident report? And I was like no, what happened? When did it happen? She's like I'm glad she said something, or I would have been like just kind of in shock seeing him and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sad he has this like he like pretty much ran into the retaining wall.

Tayla: 1:46

So he's got like a poor little scrape like with, like a little it's going to be a little scabs and it's got like a goose egg on his forehead. Poor thing. Good thing kids are very resilient.

Sam: 1:58

He seems normal to me, he seems okay. So we'll see.

Tayla: 2:03

Yeah, shame. Anyway, been kind of an intense week for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the topic of discussion today, so I will do my oh yeah, introduction, I'm ready and I.

Tayla: 2:19

I'm the first to say that we last week our episode was on shooter responsibility because the crumbly parents were convicted of involuntary I don't know involuntary manslaughter. They anyway we had this whole discussion and this came on like the wings of us releasing that episode. I think it was literally the next day and it was just horrible. So here here we go. I'll get my yawn out the way, okay.

Tayla: 2:51

Last week, on april 11th 2024, southern utah university went on lockdown due to reported active shooters threat. Active shooter threat. The situation began with a suspicious phone call received by the police dispatch around 9 20 am. The university immediately enacted lockdown procedures, urging students and staff to seek shelter. In place, campus police, along with cedar city police, swarmed the area and began investigating each building. There were reports of a possible suspect, but this information was later called into question, adding to the tension. Some reported hearing sounds like gunshots near the science building. Thankfully, law enforcement quickly confirmed no shots were fired.

Tayla: 3:28

The lockdown lasted for several hours. By 1 10 pm, law enforcement had cleared all buildings and deemed the campus safe and sent everyone home. Thankfully, the event turned out to be what seems to be a hoax, but it served as a serious reminder of the importance of safety protocols. The investigation into the origin of the hoax school is still ongoing and the reason sam and I are talking about this is because my brother was there on campus, my baby brother was there on campus when it happened. So before we get into all those details, babe, what do you know about personal experiences with mass shooting? Well, I do have one personal experience with it.

Sam: 4:02

I know very little. You know like I've never been in a mass shooting. Well, I do have one personal experience with it. I know very little, you know like I've never been in a mass shooting. But I just moved to the United States at the end of 98 and Columbine happened shortly afterwards. So I was in Utah and Columbine happened in Colorado and I remember the school being locked down and then everyone got sent home.

Tayla: 4:25

And that was in a different state, was it in a different state.

Sam: 4:27

Well, because they just didn't know, because it wasn't like a thing, right so it wasn't abnormal yeah, school students were. I think they didn't know if this was going to be in like multiple states, if there's copycats, like they just didn't know the extent of it because it was columbine. Was that horrific?

Dean: 4:40

I don't know if you've seen the documentaries.

Sam: 4:42

No, I have yeah, I mean it's, it's almost, it's literally worse than a horror movie.

Tayla: 4:47

Yeah, yeah, it was bad man. You must have been like, wow, we just moved here from south africa. Where the hell did we move? Like what, what have we just moved to?

Sam: 4:55

funny enough, I I didn't feel that stressed, because almost I felt de-stressed, because just the amount of violence I'd been, you know, exposed to in south africa was enough already. But it was kind of like a bizarre thing, because in south africa it seems like a trauma response.

Tayla: 5:10

It was a trauma response because, like in south africa, we do, but we do bomb drills, we do riot drills I didn't do any of that yeah but you were like kind of a parted abolishment era yeah, so all that but yeah I didn't have any of that, like I had no concerns about my safety at school from anyone else except for just other kids yeah, I know, uh, and that that's what south is still like, where it's like still school's a safe place.

Sam: 5:34

But there was this period, um, where there were there were bomb threats and there were, uh, rioting and so, and when I say rioting, it's not like it's burn the school down, kind of rioting. So that we, as growing up, I had I went through drills to manage those things.

Tayla: 5:51

Did anyone ever actually attack children at school?

Sam: 5:53

Not my school, but yeah, no, they did. They blew up schools and well, sorry, not blew up, they have set off bombs at schools and they had set off fires and had riots at schools.

Tayla: 6:05

That's crazy because it's so abnormal culturally. Yeah, africa, I think, to just like target children that way no, like in mass no fascinating okay, I didn't know anything, but I had a short period.

Sam: 6:13

Yeah, it was, yeah.

Tayla: 6:14

So yeah, you just happen to be right in that horrible sweet spot. Yep, I did not know that. Any of that I'm glad I asked what you know about it that's it well.

Tayla: 6:24

So on Thursday I had just dropped the kids over daycare and I looked down at my phone into our family chat and I saw my brother this I'm gonna read the exact text that he sent out, because it really was just he it was at. So the article says at 9 10 is when you know every the school response. So at 9, 21, dean texts up around the group and he says there's an active shooter on our campus and we're stuck in classrooms and I like just saw that text and immediately broke down immediate like panic attack almost well it was. It was like I literally had a panic attack for the next hour that I was struggling in and out of, but my whole family was just like do you hear anything? We're literally just saying, like what, what can you say? That's the hard part is like we just kept asking for information but like this is where my head went out, where I was just like we have no idea what's happening. And I think that was the hard part for the students too.

Tayla: 7:27

And we got my brother to record some of his experience, which we'll listen to in a moment, but exactly where my head went to is like I feel like I've lived my whole life with this exceptional mindset, meaning freak things don't really happen to me, they happen to other people like my mom wouldn't just die of cancer, or like my kid wouldn't just like die in a random car accident, or my brother wouldn't actually get shot in a in a school shooting situation.

Tayla: 7:58

That's kind of how I lived a lot of my life, but my mindset and worldview has changed so much in the last year or so that, like I almost have this existential dread that I just kind of recurringly deal with. I'm just like, why wouldn't it be, though like no one who has this happen to them thinks it will happen to them. So why, like, would I and people I know be the exception? And so when I saw that text, immediately I thought to myself like my brain knew probably he's going to be fine, probably he is going to be fine and this is fine yeah but my body was just like not getting it and I just panicked and just couldn't stop crying, couldn't breathe properly and I just went through this whole thing of what do you do?

Tayla: 8:42

because if this is the last time you communicate with someone you love so much, what do you say? But also you can't do that, because how is that going to help him?

Sam: 8:53

doesn't help.

Tayla: 8:53

No and so that was like this horrible of like I want to say so many things to him, but like you just can't do that, and I think all of us were just kind of like there's literally nothing we can say except for just like yeah stay safe like yeah, uh, what time did he send that text again?

Sam: 9:10

9, 21 9, 21, okay. So I don't usually check or even get notifications from that chat group, but it just so happens because of that, the timing of it. I was about to leave, but I was. I saw the text come in, I checked it and then I was like you know, that same sort of like shock, almost it is just absolute shock.

Sam: 9:30

So I, I, but for me, like how, um, I use, I like to deal with you know that situation, to act, just do something, just keep doing something. You know, you know so immediately started looking for any sort of notifications online. I went to the website, I went to the news, I went to everything and eventually, I think it was like five minutes later, su, you finally posts a thing on there what's his name? And then I slapped that into the chat and then right after that I sent dean a text.

Tayla: 9:56

So I'm gonna sure yeah, do the, do the.

Sam: 10:01

Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to.

Tayla: 10:25

It's so hard just sitting here crying at each other um, it was just hard, but kind of like.

Sam: 10:38

You said you're like, I've got to, you know, um, just reach out. So, um, I just texted, bet, your phone is getting a million messages. You know, it's kind of like, keep it chill. And I said you're doing okay, what's the situation? That's the last question is kind of like the hey, we haven't heard anything in the, in the, we just know this. What's the situation? And he immediately wrote back I'm not sure they are, they are evacuating some buildings. And then I wrote glad you're safe, keep your eyes open, don't hesitate to act. Love you, bro. You got this. And he just wrote yep, love you, love you. I think it was right. After I sent that text, I just I got so sad and so angry. So sad and so angry cause it's like that was it.

Sam: 11:57

That's all I could do so helpless and I was so mad that he's in that situation and so mad that we have allowed ourselves as a collective society that this is normal. So a million thoughts went through my head. One of them was like hey, too bad, it's three hours away. You know, the school's three hours away. What you there really isn't much support or help. You can even do three hours.

Sam: 12:39

So yeah, I just I just felt really in a lot of pain for dean, like I'm so glad that it you know it turned out the way it did yeah but for so many people and you know, I've, you know, put together a list of stats and experiences and stuff on my, you know for so many parents and siblings and friends, it doesn't turn out well and to me it's insane.

Tayla: 13:14

The United States is supposed to be like this, beacon of freedom, beacon of the pursuit of happiness, but it really is, you know, in a lot of ways absolute chaos here yeah, I, I like literally just was like sobbing on my way because I just like it was literally as I was pulling onto the freeway that I looked down and saw that text from him and I felt the same way where I was, just like how is it that I'm getting this? Like I hate that, like I would ever get a text like this and that someone I love would ever need to send it. But it was that uncertainty, like you just don't know what's going on, and I like drove to work and I sat in the parking lot, just couldn't stop crying and I was like that's how I was, like I know I'm having a panic attack right now because I could not regulate and I've only ever been in that situation, like in a panic. And so I sat and just like sobbed in the parking lot and then I like got myself together, right, and then I like walked 10 steps towards my building and then just like crumpled, like in the fetal position, just on my feet on the sidewalk, just like crying, like sobbing more. Then I got myself together and like walked back into the building, got up the elevator, went to my desk and just like tried not to look at anybody because I was like I'll hold it together if I just don't have to talk to anyone.

Tayla: 14:40

And I'm in a group desk area. So someone behind me was like they were joking about pranks that they pulled and I didn't hear what they were talking about. But my boss was like, hey, Tayla, did you purchase any googly eyes lately? And I just turned around and then was about to respond funnily and then I just burst out crying, sobbing, and I just ran from around and then was about to respond like funnily, and I just burst out crying, like sobbing, and I just like ran from the room into our wellness area and probably that was very weird for everyone.

Tayla: 15:14

And eventually, like I was texting my friend Claudia and she was so helpful, and I was texting my cousin in South Africa and she was so helpful, and finally you were just like can I just call you? And so we talked and that's I. And finally you were just like can I just call you? And so we talked and that's I. Finally was able to just like calm down. I calmed the hell down so I could breathe and stop crying. But we kind of were just like I don't know, like I love my brother so much, like I'm obsessed with him. It's a little bit weird, but like I'm almost 11 years older than him, I just he reminds me so much of like max too, like our baby is so much like him, just a big sweet kid just massive gentle giant and but also like really tough and I don't know, but like I just have loved him since he existed and like will forever.

Tayla: 16:02

and I just just you and I were talking. I was just like I will never, as a parent, put myself in a situation where I could receive a text like this and what that means logistically I don't know, but I was like I will never do this to myself.

Sam: 16:18

Yeah. So on that topic, I mean, since we've been together, that's been one of my things has been I don't want our kids to go to public school, and for us I think I feel that feels like the the nail um in the coffin. It's just. There's just no ways that I would ever feel comfortable having our kids in any sort of public school in the United States in the United States.

Tayla: 16:40

Yeah, and that's. It's very sad to me because I like think public school is such a great experience in so many ways, and in a lot of ways it was for me and so I I mourn for that. I'm like that's ridiculous. What, what am I gonna do?

Sam: 16:54

yeah, the the thing is this thing. It's scary, though that's happened, you know, recently as well is that it's not just public schools now no, yeah.

Tayla: 17:02

so it's private schools, private schools, even with all. So it's private schools, private schools, yeah.

Sam: 17:06

Even with all the measures that private schools have put in place for safety and protection, there still have been.

Tayla: 17:11

It's malls, school shootings and malls, yeah, it's concerts. It's like literally, oh well, you just don't live your life Like I don't know. But anyway, I'd love to hear some of the impact, and we've talked a bit about this in a couple of episodes, but I think it would be good to just go over again. Gratefully, in this situation, nobody was hurt and well, physically right, no one was hurt, no one was killed. But for literally thousands of people that wasn't the case. And when I still think about that, sandy Hook shooting like that just kills me.

Sam: 17:51

Yeah, sandy Hook happened in 2012. For those of you that don't remember it or haven't heard of it, I'll just read the Wikipedia entry 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed 26 people and himself. He first killed his mother at their shared home before taking four of her guns and driving to his former elementary school. He killed 21st grade children aged 6 and 7, along with six adults, including four teachers, the principal and the school psychologist. Two other people were injured. Lanza then killed himself as police arrived at the school. So I mean, I've read and heard some of the horror stories of first grade, that's, six and seven. Again, it's tiny Seeing their classmates. So the ones that didn't die, seeing their classmates literally shredded, shredded from bullets, and some of the students and you you can read the transcripts of this called their parents, were on the phone with police little babies yeah, and it wasn't just that he had shot these people is that, when police arrived, police didn't act when they first arrived?

Sam: 19:00

and he kept shooting, and that's happened so many times as well and and yeah, so president barack obama was the president at the time and he tried to pass gun legislation and couldn't and I forget the quote, but it's something like if this wouldn't do it, then nothing will yeah, what will, yeah, and so that to me, has what is. It's is such a like huge moment of failure for us as a society and people in congress to change the laws it is, it absolutely is, and, and first grade. He's right like first grade.

Tayla: 19:43

I remember when he was giving a like a speech to the nation right after it happened and he got emotional and I just like, was so I? Just stuff like this really makes me lose faith in humanity where people were just like, wow, he's putting on emotion for and I was like why is it hard to believe that someone would genuinely be devastated about kids being shot to death? Little little kids, like I don't know? I was just like why is that what you care about? Who freaking cares about that?

Sam: 20:18

Yeah.

Tayla: 20:18

And I, it goes sorry, go ahead.

Sam: 20:22

Oh, it goes back to you said it earlier. Uh, kind of like how you feel, like I feel exceptional things, these things don't happen to me. The thing that scares me a lot about our society is that people struggle to have sympathy. You know, they have empathy, which which, in my interpretation of the word, is that if it happens to them or they can relate to something that they've been through, but they struggle to have sympathy, which means they can sympathize with someone else going through an experience and be like, oh wow, I identify that you're going through this and I've never experienced anything like this.

Tayla: 20:59

It's still as important to me, yeah.

Sam: 21:01

A lot of people struggle with sympathy. They absolutely just do not have it and it scares me because they see a situation like that's not my kids, won't happen to my kids and so therefore it's not real.

Tayla: 21:13

This is how we would have handled it, and that's why it would be different, right it's not real to them.

Sam: 21:18

That, to them, is just a story. It's like from a book or a tv show, and so to them it's not real. And so when, when they see the president being emotional about it, they're like he's being emotional about some sort of stupid story. It's not even real to me, it's not even real to him, and for me that's the biggest, scariest thing about a huge population in the United States and the world as well.

Tayla: 21:39

I mean, it went so far as to what's his name Jones, the Jones guy.

Sam: 21:43

it went so far as to what's his name jones the jones guy, alex jones.

Tayla: 21:45

Alex jones like just terrorizing parents who've literally had their babies murdered, trying to claim that it was a political hoax just despicable. And the I think it was last year. There was like a ruling against him. What was the? Do you have the amount that he was?

Tayla: 22:05

1.5 billion yeah, the judge found and or maybe it was a jury, I'm not sure it was a civil case and he was found liable for 1.5 billion dollars because of that defamation and the damage he caused.

Tayla: 22:18

And I felt like that was a strong message by the judge or the jury or both, that like, what the hell? You cannot use people's tragedy to promote your political agenda. And I think that's interesting because a lot of people that are strong gun rights advocates claim that the left does that. They're like. Well, you're just using the sob story for your political agenda, and I think that the, the does that. They're like. Well, you're just using the sob story for your political agenda, and I think that the, the, the difference between what I think the majority of the left does because there's always extreme right, I'm not going to even but the majority of the left by taking these tragedies and be like this is enough, like we need to do something about it, is very different from like actually someone using a tragedy for their agenda. This is a clear example of like, what it feels like and looks like when that's really happening.

Sam: 23:11

I think yeah, the the statistic on school shootings since 9 11, so since since after since 2001 2001 is 80 school shootings, 80 incidences. That's insanity that's.

Tayla: 23:30

That's not even the amount of people, that. That's just the incidents like that's. That represents so many more people that died. And that's the thing is. When you're saying this happened in 2012, I could I literally was like, oh my gosh, does that mean that those children should be?

Sam: 23:45

adults.

Tayla: 23:46

They should have been deemed like literally they would have been in school with Dean, like that's the age, demographic, it's that's. That kind of loss is like insurmountable. And again it's just kind of like I will not do that to myself. What will I do? Who knows I can't? I'm not going to homeschool my kids. I'm not going to do that to me or to them, I will I do. Who knows I can't? I'm not going to homeschool my kids. I'm not going to do that to me or to them. I can't. I can't be everything to them. I'm not going to provide them with the best education that they can get. But like, yeah, and that's the thing I think that's what so many parents struggle with these days is how do I protect my kids but also provide them with what they deserve, which is a really excellent education and social education as well?

Sam: 24:24

Yeah, I'd love to hear, so you know so me and you were listening to some of Dean's comments about the day.

Tayla: 24:30

Yeah, I asked him to record some of his experience and I think let's listen to it and maybe respond.

Dean: 24:37

The whole experience was really interesting because our teacher kind of went into shock and so a couple of the students ended up having to take control and so I was like, do we need to move the shelf in front of the door?

Dean: 24:51

But the classroom we were in is a dance classroom and so the doors didn't really lock and someone had keys to a different classroom next door and we went in there and barricaded the doors with some desks, barricaded the doors with some desks and we didn't really have any like information, and the guy that they like sent out some weird like description but ended up there saying that it was a prank call.

Dean: 25:14

So we're all kind of a little bit confused. But it was really concerning in the moment because the police came by and told us to hang tight and then we sat there for two hours. But the craziest part of the whole situation is that they had us come to school the next day and still had the regularly planned like activities and called it fun Friday and like didn't really acknowledge anything and it was just very interesting overall and yeah, and the next day was almost worse than the day of once it set in yeah, so the kind of like what dean saying, the information that we were all you know seeing posted online in the news and then on the website was chaotic and confusing and it's shocking to hear how of a almost like they're sweeping it under the rug, like it never happened.

Sam: 26:06

But I mean, they had SWAT there, they had drones, they had you know it was like a whole massive evacuation of the campus building by building, room by room. That took I think it was a total of six hours between when we first got that text and Dean said hey.

Tayla: 26:23

I'm home.

Sam: 26:24

So the fact that that huge incident turns into just well, fun. Friday. It just really just shows the mentality of oh man, we were so down.

Tayla: 26:35

We overreacted too, but like.

Sam: 26:40

Hey, this is a good reminder, one of we need to have things in place and have a lot of, like you know, maybe some prepared discussion with the professors as well. As you know talking about, you know, just the whole trauma of the experience.

Tayla: 26:56

Yeah, yeah, even if nothing happened, to face your mortality and to have the fear and panic that like someone could come and try to kill you, that's traumatic, even if nothing actually ever happened, you didn't know that at the time. There's actually a new Amsterdam episode. This is like a hospital show and in this episode they're treating a girl that seems to have PTSD and no one can figure out like what she is so afraid of. She won't go back to school and eventually it comes out that they had a school shooting drill they made. They, they like had a child like fake shot that was in on the drill, that was her friend, and they like really panicked the kids and put them into the situation to kind of really prepare them in case, and right afterwards, like they told them oh, that was a drill, like now you know how things would be if it really happened.

Tayla: 27:49

And that's why, like this child, this teenager didn't think, oh, you know, okay, well, that's fine and and, and her parents were kind of like I don't get. You know, the teacher was like I don't understand why she's struggling and he's like she didn't know at the time where she saw her friend get shot that she wasn't actually shot like her body. You can't go back and tell your body's survival response that like, oh, that, that. Now I know that wasn't real and it was fine and you were safe the whole time.

Sam: 28:19

You can't like go back and give that to your brain, yeah yeah, so cognitive behavioral therapy, which is, you know that, the telling of your brain, yeah so cognitive behavioral therapy, which is the telling of your brain that, hey, it's okay, is super effective and it's helpful, but there's still. You need to go through the process of counseling and therapy.

Tayla: 28:34

It takes a lot of time.

Sam: 28:35

You can't just be like, hey, this is cool because I mean there's gonna be, we're gonna let Dean kind of speak for himself, but it's not just the same day. Oh, to speak for himself, but there's, it doesn't it's?

Tayla: 28:47

not just the same day. Oh cool, glad I'm safe now. Let's go on with life, get over it like it's. It's not how the human brain works when it's faced with something like that, so let's.

Dean: 28:54

Let's listen to the rest of what he has to say the second day I went into a class, engaged in joking conversation with several of the students in the class about how it wasn't that big of a deal and that people were kind of just being dramatic, even though many of the students that I was in lockdown with had said that this was their second one, and one girl had been in three or four and in an airport and at her school and the other girl had been. That was her fourth lockdown and it was crazy because I was one of the few people there who it was my very first like lockdown that might be real and wasn't just a practice lockdown. So the professor in the class ended up making jokes about it and one of the students in the class he's older, he's like has grandkids and he fought in Afghanistan as a soldier, and so he was like, well, this was nothing compared to Afghanistan where I fought. And then he said, plus, there's so many guns here on campus that we shouldn't be worried. Anyway, that guy would be dead before anyone could react. And then he said I felt much safer because I had this and then pulled out his concealed carry gun. Having the concealed carry gun and pulling it out the day after this after making jokes with the professor and some other students about how it wasn't a big deal, just really kind of showed me how much of a problem it is. Because I mean, most of those people have been through several lockdowns and this guy's response was that I fought through Afghanistan, which was way worse. So I didn't feel anything and I felt safer because I had a gun.

Dean: 30:33

But the gun for me was the issue in the first place. Like why do you need a gun on a campus? Like you shouldn't need a gun to have on campus in the first place. I mean, we are here for school.

Dean: 30:46

Of course it's going to be less scary than a war zone, but the thing is none of us signed up to be in a war zone or a place where shooters are. So I don't understand why that comparison needed to be drawn in the first place, because it just didn't make any sense. So the day of me and my friends, we all hung out and went to get lunch and went on a hike so we could all feel better, and then sitting on a couch alone later that day, I was just like it finally hit me and I had realized that all my friends and family who were messaging me were genuinely concerned for my life and it was like just a really surreal moment because I realized the weight of it, because I had kind of shut down a lot of my emotions to be able to help lock down buildings and barricade doors and help this girl get her insulin not insulin, her seizure medicine shocking, honestly.

Sam: 31:36

So yeah, dean said it very well which was basically the next day. It became surreal, like he realized that the text that he was getting is. You know, we're like genuine texts from family and friends, like trying to find out, is he okay?

Tayla: 31:52

you know thoughts and prayers to please literally my mom was like praying for you, like what else? What else can you do? That's scary. It's scary to realize how afraid for you people are yeah, have you spoken to your parents about it?

Sam: 32:08

I haven't honestly, so like speaking of every single one of those comments that dean mentioned in his classroom are 100 trauma responses yeah, like every, even people who thought they were chill, like clearly they're not.

Sam: 32:26

Yeah, and so I I've been through violent trauma and so I recognize it and it's nothing to be ashamed of. But, yeah, those are trauma responses of people that are literally still dealing with the trauma of the previous day. And I, I, I know there's trauma that you know you haven't been able to process with your family yet with this, you know totally I think you know being able to spend some time with dean yeah I think it's gonna hit home and I think being able to talk it through with your parents is gonna be very, you know, valuable, because it's something you have to process yeah what's this gonna?

Sam: 33:07

it can come out in weird ways.

Tayla: 33:08

Come out in weird ways, yeah, and I anticipate that's probably like what people's tendency would be, which was is like okay, like phew, let's not think about that because that was so horrible, you know. But I agree that, like the guy pulling out his own gun, that's a trauma response, but I I think it's still like inappropriate that his trauma response is like further traumatizing other people.

Tayla: 33:30

I think that's ridiculous, but at the same time it's like okay, clearly you're unwell, like, and that's. But that's. The horrible thing is, typically these situations are caused by people who are unwell and just it just makes you so distrustful of people's judgment because clearly, people's judgment is not intact the way you'd want it to be. Again, they've just gone through this very traumatic thing and that could be why, like, maybe this is very abnormal for that person, but that's not really comforting either to be like oh, you're acting abnormally and you have access to a gun that you've just brought here with all of us Great, you know, I don't know a gun that you've just brought here with all of us great, you know. Yeah, I don't know, it sucks I. I hate hearing that. I hate hearing that that was his experience going back to school?

Sam: 34:11

yeah, and I mean the.

Tayla: 34:13

The next experience, or the experience he's about to explain it with, with this seizure medication was new to us I hadn't heard this part and just really kind of showed the intensity of the day as well yeah, for for people who, like, have illnesses, they were locked up for hours because of the fear of being murdered, and this for this girl. It's a real decision between, like, I'm gonna let dean tell a story, then we can react to it yeah.

Dean: 34:45

So we had this girl. She has lupus and she needed seizure medicine and so, realizing that, I went out with her, we unbarricaded the door to go grab her seizure medicine, which was in our old classroom in her backpack, because she was like I'm going to have a seizure if I don't have it, and I said I will go with you and we snuck out out and we went and grabbed it and we came back and it was just a surreal moment because for me I had like kind of shut off a lot of my emotions in the moment about it and only really felt those emotions later in the day and then I ended up kind of being okay after a bit. But it was like a weird. I had a weird like lull in my day where I was just like thinking about mortality and how unsafe and frustrating schools are Like, not even just colleges. They locked down all of the schools in the area because they were scared. I mean, one of the guys in the lockdown he has three kids and they were all in different schools and his poor wife had to listen intently to hear if their three kids were safe and her husband was safe, and so it was just like how can we live in a place that will allow this to happen and not really care, but care so much about judging people's bodies?

Dean: 35:59

And it was just a frustrating realization for me that they don't really care until it's too late, because they were there once there was a shootout happening, a potential shootout happening, but not in the initial. They were there during the initial like they weren't there and we had no preparation or anything. And then they all of a sudden were there once there was a potential thing happening, and so it was like they don't really care until it's happening, instead of making laws and programs to help prevent things like this rather than fix them once they're there. And then we sat and the classroom barricaded quietly in mostly silence for almost four hours, not really knowing what was going on. And then they finally came through and let us out, and it was just apparently they're saying it's a prank, but they also found AK-47 shells near the library, which isn't even anywhere close to where the alleged shooting happened, which was in the science building and it's the other side of campus Sorry, not the library, which is the other side of campus and it was just a kind of hard realization that they do not really care about our safety until it's in danger.

Dean: 37:17

And the craziest part about it is they had a call in about a shooting exactly a year ago just off by two days and so they took it way more serious this time. But it was just just just a crazy experience overall because they kind of pretended like nothing happened the day after and some professors were really kind about it and let people go home. It happened the day after and some professors were really kind about it and let people go home as long as they got their attendance and came in the first place, but other professors didn't care. One of the craziest stories I heard was that this one class was taking a test and the professor just started barricading the door without telling them.

Tayla: 37:56

But none of them had their phones because they were taking a test and he wouldn't tell them why he was barricading the door and locking it, and other classrooms didn't have locks like we didn't know that dean left his barricade to help anyone at the time at all, like literally, until I listened to his message about this I had no idea and it's it freaks me out, but also like I like I admire it so much, like I don't know. But this is even though this, like a shooting, didn't really happen. This was a real dilemma that this girl and people around her had to make. It's like, do I deal with a real health emergency waiting here, like what is safer, what is a safer choice? And it's kind of impossible to know at the time.

Sam: 38:43

Yeah, and it's going to be something that you know, like Dean was already saying, like hey, it's starting to like the realization of it all kind of hit me and he was telling the story right after saying that, which you know. I'm sure you've felt that way in certain times after you've gone through trauma. It's like all of a sudden, like maybe it's a month later, two months later for me it's I've had it like two years later where it's something like hit me, like oh my gosh, what my situation really was and I had just been kind of just, you know, just being the me that just deals with trauma.

Sam: 39:15

You know, that's that's kind of been my mantra. I was like, yeah, I can deal with anything. And then all of a sudden, a couple years later, I'm sitting there, you know, in the bathtub, whatever, and all of a sudden it hits you and like, oh geez, I was this close to being dead. That you know, and you know, those are things that you know. All those kids that hope, you know, are going to have to to deal with yeah, and and like claudia and my friends, they were just like so how's Dean?

Tayla: 39:42

And I was just like I don't know, because, even if Dean feels like quote-unquote okay, like it's hard to know because of that reason, where it's just like he's literally trying to take finals and finish his second semester in college, like how can we know if he's able to like actually take the time to process what happened to him? And it seems like the space isn't really being provided very well, like by the school or by mentors in the area and like he's fine, whatever that means, right, and it's been hard because like I didn't tell Dean about like my experience at work and like how horrible it was for me, because it's like who freaking cares what happened for me, because it's like who freaking?

Tayla: 40:21

cares what happened for me and also like how is that going to help him? Even after the fact, like why would I? I don't know? It kind of feels like why would I tell him, what's that going to do? Just like further traumatize them it's. It's just hard to know what to do, and I think that's what that's. Why people struggle so much is because nothing feels like appropriate, but also then nothing feels like enough, you know.

Sam: 40:45

Yeah, I think transparent communication is good and you know, if you know the thing that's, you know I'm sure Dean's heard it a million times and the other kids at the school we're just glad everyone's okay. You know, and you know we're here to chat about it. You know, go eat some s'mores at a campfire and just chat about. You know what a great thing it is to be alive and just the different stories that happened from that day and just these experiences can always help remind you just the fragility of life, which can be good and a bad thing yeah.

Sam: 41:24

Which can be used for to make you feel grateful, and that's something that I've tried to do, tried, you know. Just turn it into something that you know it could be tomorrow. Be grateful for today.

Tayla: 41:37

Yeah, but I struggle with that Like I. I'm kind of the opposite, where I'm just like it's hard for me to I and maybe it's just because I was so surrounded by people just making everything positive that like I just kind of my body wants to push back and be like I don't want to have to make this positive like I don't want to have to spin this into like something for my good yeah but at the same like that's not a healthy way to live, like your approach is much healthier, but it's hard Because I feel like that can only come authentically.

Tayla: 42:08

You can't be told by someone oh, what can you?

Sam: 42:11

learn from this.

Tayla: 42:11

How can you make this positive, like it has to only come from you when you're ready?

Sam: 42:15

Yeah, you can't get to that true like, like, like feeling good about something, like true feeling good about something, until you've processed the pain and process the trauma and process the scariness and and process all that side.

Tayla: 42:30

Until you've processed that you really are just almost pretending to be happy and it's not actually being happy and optimistic yeah, and that's why I feel like comments in direct response to tragedies like this, like oh, wow, you're so lucky, you should feel so lucky, or like aren't you so happy that, blah, blah, blah. This is just unhelpful because, like you really can't push someone into their stage of processing, like to the stage that we're all happier and more comfortable with, and like, yay, let's like walk off into the sunset, like we can get there processing, like to the stage that we're all happier and more comfortable with, and like, yay, let's like walk off into the sunset, like we can get there. You can get there and you should. I think it's important to, as you've been saying, like process it, do therapy, do whatever you need to do to do it.

Sam: 43:12

But being socially pushed externally to like kind of get yourself to that point is super unhelpful, I think, or at least it is for me yeah, it can be super unhelpful, but I think it's also, you know, reminded to have grace, though, because a lot of times, that's how they're dealing with the trauma and they don't know how to appropriately.

Tayla: 43:31

Yeah, that's a trauma response. Is people saying like, aren't you happy? Like, are we? Just so grateful, or we're just so lucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just all got to be a little more chill. So I think, let's, let's let Dean kind of finish up his experience.

Dean: 43:47

Another crazy experience, kind of more specific to law enforcement, was that kind of from the get go we started hearing about the lockdown and about an hour later, while we were in lockdown, having really heard anything, the police came and knocked on our door. They said it's the police. And people didn't really know what to do because you're usually told not to trust when people just say it's the police. But someone opened the door and it was the police, luckily and they said hang tight, and that's all they said and they told us to rebarricade the door. So then we stayed in lockdown for another almost three hours and it was. It was long and it was hard and it was kind of crazy.

Dean: 44:27

Overall it was just just a shocking experience because I learned how I would react in a situation like this and how how important it is to have a level head, because our professor kind of went into shock and then and then, once we were like we need to do something, she clicked into that let's go mindset and then and then became very helpful. But I think me and several other students kind of went into what are we going to do right from the beginning. So that was. It was just a crazy experience overall and I'm I'm I'm glad I know how I would react and that I will be okay if it happens again in this situation Obviously not if something really bad happens, but if I'm in a lockdown again, I know that I will react okay.

Tayla: 45:15

It was just crazy because feeling those feelings later kind of shocked me a little bit and I wasn't expecting how shaken shaken I actually was later yeah, I I just appreciate dean for trying to like put into words the experience, especially it's so fresh, it's not even a week old and it's difficult.

Tayla: 45:40

It's difficult and you can kind of hear this in his storytelling like to just kind of keep it all straight and and represent everything that was going on. But I appreciate his willingness to like even try speak about it and I feel like he did a great job and I'm just grateful he's here. I don't think I would have coped with this as well as he did and a lot of the other students, because having law enforcement first of all, not being sure who is there to help you and who isn't that sucks. But then, when facing law enforcement, like having literally nothing but hang tight, barricade the store, again that sucks. And again the police are literally in what they think is an active shooting situation. They're trying to communicate and check on people as quickly as possible. I'm not expecting them to like sit down and like have this whole thing to the students, so I don't I don't necessarily expect them to have acted any different, but it still sucks, like for the students that that's, that's what they had, you know yeah, I mean.

Sam: 46:40

So this was supposed to be a mini episode, but yeah yeah, this is a.

Sam: 46:46

This was a pretty big event in our lives and an even bigger event in dean's and the kids lives done down in southern utah. I'm just, I'm just glad everyone's okay. And you know I've, in preparation for this, I I looked up a and you know, in preparation for this, I looked up a bunch of like you know what ballots are out there that you know have gun control on them or any sort of gun anything, and the only thing I found was basically four you know pieces of legislation in different states that are like trying to loosen gun laws and there's nothing really that happening at the federal level. So, um, feel, help us on that side too, because it feels like we don't even have representatives that are willing to take up this conversation. All we want is sensible gun laws. You know. I think people owning guns that you know are responsible, that have shown that they can be responsible.

Tayla: 47:47

Stable.

Sam: 47:48

You know, is a very normal and I think a very logical and I think a very fair thing that still keeps, you know, the right to bear arms, the right to defend yourself. I mean, just treat it like having a vehicle. I mean that's the dumbest thing, but, like, people have to show competency and, you know, a mental capability to drive a vehicle, why can't we have that for something that is literally like a machine, a tool that is built for killing people? I mean, it's just so bizarre to me that is built for killing people.

Tayla: 48:25

I mean, it's just so bizarre to me. Yeah, I mean, in my mind, the right to bear arms is definitely after the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and the way we're currently going is propping up the right to bear arms above someone's right to live and to be free, as you said earlier, and to like pursue happiness. Like how many children and families this is just gone for because we just can't have sensible gun reform?

Sam: 48:56

yeah, here's a fact guns are not a religion, guns are not your identity, the people that have tied themselves to guns, as, as I mean, this whole persona. Yeah, I mean, please, you know, step away from it. Yes, the gun is important, yes, you have the right to bear it, but no, it is not who you are and it's not who you identify with and it's not who you pray to.

Tayla: 49:23

That's not the most important thing.

Sam: 49:27

Done, I'm done.

Tayla: 49:36

Thanks for listening to the Babe. What Do you Know About? Podcast.

Sam: 49:40

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