Modern Dating

Ever swiped right and found yourself in a whirlwind of emojis and awkward first dates? We're peeling back the curtain on the hilariously complex world of modern dating, where apps dictate the landscape and constructing the perfect profile is an art form. Join us as we share our own fumbles and triumphs in the digital quest for love, from our laughable outdated experiences to navigating the new rules of engagement—like who messages first and when to take the leap from casual chatting to locking it down exclusively.

But it's not all left-swipes and ghosting; we get real about the challenges that come with curating authentic connections amidst the endless parade of polished profiles. With each click and conversation, we explore how to present our most genuine selves and why a collection of candid snaps can be your secret weapon. We're serving up a candid discussion on the need for genuine engagement and a dash of caution, alongside a reminder that sometimes, the most memorable connections are those that unfold offline.

As we wrap up, we recount a heartwarming birthday surprise that proves romance isn't dead—it's just waiting to be rediscovered. So whether you're a seasoned veteran of the dating app scene or a tentative newcomer, there's something in this episode for everyone. Laughter, insightful lessons, and a sprinkle of love advice await as we tackle the journey of finding that special someone in an era where pixels pave the way to partnership.

Transcript

Sam: 0:10

Welcome to Babe. What Do you Know About the podcast with your favorite husband and wife duo Sam

Tayla: 0:16

and Tayla. Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.

Sam: 0:24

Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way.

Tayla: 0:33

One of my favorite parts about growing in Texas was how it was such nice, moderate weather to us, having come from Utah. We met up with a friend of ours and we had just driven two hours to meet up with them and I saw them standing at the park playing and my friend was dressed in like a full winter coat.

Sam: 0:54

Oh yeah.

Tayla: 0:55

And I was like, oh, it must be freezing out there. So I'm like grabbing everything, and then we step outside and I'm like, oh, it's so nice.

Sam: 1:04

You get acclimatized, you must.

Tayla: 1:07

I mean because they were freezing and the family were staying, that they were all cold and I mean it was chilly, but it was nice. Our kids played outside in the grass barefoot a lot of the time.

Sam: 1:21

Yeah, I think you know what this has good food there. I said it. It has good food Like it's. I was thinking like one of my highlights. I was like you know it's like it's like good food every single time I eat food.

Tayla: 1:35

Oh yeah, it was so good. We had this Vietnamese food the first night. That was ridiculous, oh man.

Sam: 1:43

The all you can eat sushi that you missed out on.

Tayla: 1:45

I went to not all you can eat sushi. I went to pay for a really good couple of rolls of sushi and I liked that very much. All you can eat sushi doesn't sound that fun to me because I don't think I could eat that much.

Sam: 1:56

So it came around on like plates that were like rotating around and you know, and then you could like special order stuff. I think we went through like 39 plates.

Tayla: 2:05

How many? Oh, I forgot, there was only three of you. That's actually crazy. How many of them did you eat?

Sam: 2:16

Oh, like 10, maybe at banks.

Tayla: 2:18

Okay, you took two teenage boys.

Sam: 2:20

There's no way I can keep up with them.

Tayla: 2:24

But it was fun. The kids did pretty well with travel. I would say compared to any other 20 month old and four year old, they did really well.

Tayla: 2:31

Yeah, ella sat on my lap the whole way. Yeah, we were like this is probably our last flight, we can get away with not purchasing a ticket for Max himself as well. So we just got three tickets and we're like, between the three seats the four of us will squeeze and we'll fit. What ended up happening was Ella ended up sitting on your lap and Max ended up getting his own seat. Yeah, but he's at that age, she's just wiggly. Ella's happy to be cuddled and watch a good movie, so Max will get there, I suppose. But it was fun. It was fun, I agree. Food was probably my favorite part and the company, but yeah.

Tayla: 3:08

Yeah, anyway, we are going to be talking about modern dating today, and I think that's funny because the family friends that we went to go visit we actually talked quite a lot about how you and I met and started dating and stuff, so it'll be kind of I feel wholly underqualified to talk about modern online dating because I've been out of the marketplace for so long Out of the marketplace. Well, you're more qualified than I am because and we'll talk about this I've never used a dating app ever.

Tayla: 3:40

Wow, and you have, so you're going to be our subject matter expert between the two of us.

Sam: 3:45

Yeah, I'm very dated to episode, I know.

Tayla: 3:49

But I have some good statistics, some good things to talk about and have a lot of single friends. So let me do my intro. Gone are the days of chance encounters and blind dates orchestrated by well-meaning friends. Today, love seeks its arrow through the digital realm, with dating apps holding the reins. Is modern dating a match made in heaven or a recipe for heartbreak? Hold on to your horses, because nearly half of the US population is single, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Tayla: 4:17

Globally, a staggering 366 million people are swiping their way through dating apps, searching for connection. By 2027. It is estimated that there will be 440 million people seeking love through online platforms specifically. Additionally, internet dating generated 2.86 billion US dollars in 2022, with the market showing no sign of slowing down. Turns out, young adults are the app savvy sweethearts, with over half being under 30.

Tayla: 4:52

Having so over half of people under 30 having dipped their toes into online dating, let's see, the quest for love just isn't about physical attraction anymore. 63% of daters prioritize emotional maturity over looks, suggesting we're seeking deeper connections beyond the carefully curated profile pic, and only 4% of people have a very negative view of online dating. So the stigma is fading and nearly 70% of app encounters lead to romantic relationships of some kind, but it is not always smooth sailing. Women are more likely to report negative experiences, highlighting the need for safer spaces within the app ecosystem. And let's not forget the endless swiping fatigue, with only 28% of men and 34% of women actually meeting their matches in person. So, babe, what do you know about modern dating?

Sam: 5:48

It's basically nothing, nothing.

Tayla: 5:51

Absolutely nothing. Say it again Well, that's been a good episode, but I was Make sure to smash that like button Subscribe for more. But I was thinking what? Where was it? Where was the part? Oh, when I was talking about how much money the platform is or the apps are generating, we've been watching what is the show? We've been watching that, like every ad, is a different dating app. It's on Hulu, yeah.

Sam: 6:26

So we're getting advertised on Hulu and it's always like some random dating app afterwards.

Tayla: 6:31

Literally. I think we've seen ads for at least 10 different dating apps that I've never heard of on Hulu.

Sam: 6:38

It's better than the iAds we were getting.

Tayla: 6:40

True Like. Do you have chronic dry eye syndrome with? Like the animations?

Sam: 6:44

of like it's horrifying, no.

Tayla: 6:49

Our algorithms, goodness messed up.

Sam: 6:52

On Hulu. At least that's fair. It doesn't make any sense.

Tayla: 6:55

So dating apps let's talk about why people use them. Why do you think people use dating apps Like what are the advantages of it? And compared to like traditional dating, why do you think it's moving that way?

Sam: 7:10

I'm just going to throw out some guesses. So I'm assuming it's got to do with just the broader marketplace. So, like you just can see a lot more people a lot quicker. You know, you can just look at a profile, or swipe, swipe, swipe, whatever. Versus beforehand you would have to meet someone you know more less often, less frequently, like at your hobbies and your job or the bar or, you know, going out to events. So I think that's probably one of the biggest ones is just ease of access. You can be a very lazy data. Like you just sit at home and you know or you could be on another date.

Sam: 7:52

You could be on another date browsing, I guess.

Tayla: 7:55

True. So I want to ask you this, because you mostly use dating apps between marriages.

Sam: 8:04

What a sentence yeah.

Tayla: 8:05

Digest right there Between weddings, but you were in Miami for quite a lot of that time going out and doing stuff in person. So why use the dating apps when you were going out and meeting people.

Sam: 8:18

Specifically, how I got into doing it over dating apps.

Tayla: 8:21

Because you didn't originally use dating apps, like when you.

Sam: 8:25

No, no Pre marriages.

Tayla: 8:29

What is the acronym? We could come, okay, bt before.

Sam: 8:35

So the reason why is that I was going out to clubs and venues and shows and that's pretty much all I did socially. I was, you know, currently had a music career, and so I knew the type of people that would go to these events and go to these shows. And so I, when I became single, like my very first bike, quite a great rule that I had for myself was you do not date anyone or meet anyone or go home with anyone or take anyone home from any of these things, because the type of people that it attracts it's not the kind of people you wanna have a relationship with.

Tayla: 9:13

At least not you, not me.

Sam: 9:15

Yeah, not me, because I guess I was not looking for that. I just wanted to actually have like a I'd say like a relationship that had a chance of.

Tayla: 9:26

Surviving.

Sam: 9:28

Going somewhere. So, you're not gonna find that at a club or at a venue or at ultra music festival or some.

Tayla: 9:37

I suppose this was work for you as well, so that would be a little bit weird, because it would be like looking for someone to date at work.

Sam: 9:44

Oh yeah, so for example, I would have friends that would have a quote unquote roster.

Tayla: 9:52

So Tayla's giving me the most bizarre, look right now, what is this?

Sam: 9:56

So like yeah, guys would have like a rotation of girls that they would be dating at all at the same time.

Tayla: 10:04

So Did they all know Where's everyone aware that they were?

Sam: 10:09

I would say half the girls would know, because they were probably also having their own rotation or they were trying to socially climb or whatever. So it wasn't like.

Tayla: 10:20

So they weren't like dating someone exclusively, they were just dating a lot of people.

Sam: 10:26

Yeah, but there would be consistently dating the same people, right? Ah, interesting so like, yeah, so it'd be like this girl Monday afternoon, this girl next girl Monday night, and then she'd say you keep rotating through him, so you have like a situation. Yeah, the reason was it was called. It was like called some mix between roster and rotation, because a girl could fall out of rotation and be replaced by another girl, so it's a little gross, that's kind of described the dating scene that I was kind of yeah, that's why I was like meh, I'll just not participate in that.

Tayla: 11:05

So that's why I tend to you know apps and I could be selective and be like, oh, this person's a veterinarian or something, and they don't go out to clubs, you know, yeah, yeah, so a question did any of the guys find women on their rosters through dating apps, or was it typically just in person?

Sam: 11:25

For them it was all through like person. So they were introduced, you know, by a promoter or another, you know artist, or they were coming into town just for the sake of coming to town of Miami, or whatever.

Tayla: 11:39

That's such a shift. So it sounds like the dating atmosphere was said even the right word that deeper relationships were found online and superficial relationships were found in in-person connection, at least in what I was experiencing in Miami. That is interesting, and I don't know that that's really different. I feel like that's probably at least pretty representative of quite a few places, but that's interesting. Okay, so that was what kind of drew you to apps.

Sam: 12:09

Yeah, I think if, like, my job was hosting book clubs, maybe I would have had a different you know, like, maybe I would have, you know, not dated on apps, sort of dated, but with you know, yeah, yeah, just hosting book clubs I want that job.

Tayla: 12:24

That would be amazing. Okay, so let's see where do I want to go with this. Did you find because we've talked a lot about algorithms, how they affect our social media and things how do you feel like that comes into play with dating apps?

Sam: 12:38

If at all. I have no clue because I think algorithms didn't really exist when I was on dating apps, so like to kind of timeframe this it was 2014,. I think 2013, 2014, maybe 2015.

Tayla: 12:52

Yeah, for sure, 2015.

Sam: 12:54

Yeah so in 2016.

Tayla: 12:58

Yeah, we started dating the March 2016,. So at least through there.

Sam: 13:03

Yeah, through 2015. So I think, yeah, it's like two and a half years on it, two years on it, something like that.

Tayla: 13:09

So you didn't notice or think.

Sam: 13:11

No, there was no algorithms at the time. It was all kind of like geographically and like filtered like you create your own filters, kind of a thing. I didn't realize.

Tayla: 13:19

Wait, you create filters.

Sam: 13:21

Yeah, you create your own filters, of like.

Tayla: 13:23

Like what I literally I'm like, I'm traffic.

Sam: 13:26

I think you could do like age. I think like, obviously, geographic location I really don't remember the rest, to be honest, like I really don't.

Tayla: 13:38

Like you do, physical filters like brown hair. I don't remember Religious affiliations.

Sam: 13:44

Oh, I'm sure you could.

Tayla: 13:44

there had to be some sort of Like political leanings, One I have seen my friend.

Sam: 13:50

Kylie.

Tayla: 13:51

I've seen on her apps that you can choose, like, what kind of relationship you're looking for. Oh, interesting so you can say I'm looking for something long term or I'm just looking to have fun.

Sam: 14:00

I'm pretty sure that was around then too, I think.

Tayla: 14:04

But you always put that you were looking for a relationship.

Sam: 14:06

Yeah.

Tayla: 14:08

Nice, Okay, so probably I'm sure they've rolled in algorithms on top of just like self filtering, oh for sure, and I feel like a bunch of them are like bots and scams or something like that.

Sam: 14:22

Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's got to be so easy to catfish people.

Tayla: 14:25

Yeah, okay. So let's talk about that. Safety concerns. Did you ever experience any weirdness like that? I did, okay, tell me.

Sam: 14:34

So like obviously there's a lot of weird dates and you're just like, oh, that was wow, that person's just a lot weirder than they seemed online.

Tayla: 14:39

But there was one time Texting's different.

Sam: 14:41

That the person was like. I guess the nice I don't know how to say this was like literally like 50 to maybe like 80 pounds heavier than their photos.

Tayla: 14:54

Okay, so they were old photos.

Sam: 14:56

Yeah, they're old photos Outdated Pretty dramatically, so it wasn't just like, oh, they gained 10 pounds, or you know, it was like dramatically different. And it was the only time on a date that it was just like. I literally even say to that I was like I ended the date early, like you know, like we met and had dinner and then it was, you know, we have other stuff and I was just like you know, honestly I'm not feeling it. You know, I just, you know, not feeling any connection here. So usually I was like that's a pretty good date, you know, I'd make sure like we'll have a good night and a good time. But this one I was just like I just felt very lied to and you know, they really dramatically misrepresented themselves.

Tayla: 15:42

Okay. So I'm curious how the moment was like walking up to me, like did you recognize her? Like how did you?

Sam: 15:50

Yeah, not really Like. Honestly, I didn't really recognize her at first.

Tayla: 15:53

No, yeah, Did she kind of be like hi?

Sam: 15:57

Yeah, like you know, like when you kind of like looking for someone and you can kind of motion like I think that person is that them, you know kind of a thing you know, oh man, yeah, isn't there a movie about this With Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson?

Tayla: 16:12

I don't remember. Like Hustle or Hustlers or something. Yes, she's like a British woman and they like do something. She like catfishes someone that way. And then, anyway, there is a movie about it. We've watched it together Cause they have the like South African bit at the end.

Sam: 16:34

Oh, I remember that South African bit yeah.

Tayla: 16:36

Anyway, okay. So what about safety concerns? You're a man, but that doesn't mean you didn't deal with him.

Sam: 16:45

Did you ever have?

Tayla: 16:46

situations that you felt like maybe either one's safe for you or could have potentially been unsafe for the women you were seeing if you had been not a good person.

Sam: 16:57

I think the dates that I went on. There's just a lot of things that you do in Miami in general when dating to be safe, because it's like a city with scary places potentially, and so it was just pretty common practice to meet in a pretty open public space first and then go from there Like that was just automatic.

Tayla: 17:21

So you meet at the place.

Sam: 17:22

Yeah, go meet at a place like a restaurant or like, yeah, exactly.

Tayla: 17:28

Okay, excuse me the yawns. Yeah, my friends that are dating still and do apps, they do that. They don't. In fact, I have one friend who's just started like requiring, not requiring, but she's not gonna go meet up with a guy that she hasn't FaceTimed first.

Sam: 17:44

There we go. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Tayla: 17:46

Yeah, but I feel like that's gotta be awkward a little bit to just like FaceTime someone you've never spoken with before as well. But typically her dates are very much like oh, someone's cute, they have a good texting and then they meet in person and it's me and the chemistry is often they're a lot weirder than they were, so just kind of seems like a cycle. There's also the aspect of cheating. There's I think there's actually a Utah County Facebook page or something and it's literally are you dating the same person?

Tayla: 18:21

And it's where women go to be like this is my boyfriend. Is anyone else dating my boyfriend to catch men out that are literally dating multiple people without they're kind of similar to the roster, but not Like they're actually a boyfriend or an exclusive person that shouldn't be dating other people.

Tayla: 18:39

So I feel like there's just a lot of that, just a lot of dishonesty, a lot of infidelity. You can just keep start swiping on the next thing. That sucks. Did you have that, though? Did you feel like you were kind of part of I don't know? Did you feel as disposable back then as people seem to be feeling now?

Sam: 18:59

No, no, no.

Tayla: 19:01

That's good.

Sam: 19:02

Yeah.

Tayla: 19:03

So what do you think people are looking for in relationships these days, as compared to what people were looking for in relationships in like previous generations?

Sam: 19:13

Man, I mean we've, we've. This comes up every you know so often and we're like man.

Sam: 19:17

I'm so glad I do not have to be dating right now. This just seems awful, like it really does, like it seems so much harder, like feeling valued on a date like you just brought up. I you know that's gotta be something you gotta be constantly wondering about, because you know there's a lot of people that are just using it for the access to as many people as they can. You know date and so finding a serious relationship is probably gotta be a lot harder. I would also probably wonder if people would always be like oh, maybe I can do just a little bit better, you know, and instead of thinking like yeah, you're wondering.

Sam: 19:51

Yeah, you're always wondering. You know you're thinking about every fish in the sea instead of like the fact that you have a really good connection with someone right there in front of you.

Sam: 19:59

You know, so, yeah, I didn't really have to deal with that as much, but seeing it now and how it's like the main source of dating, I could see that it would be just such a thing. In fact, I would probably choose not to be on an app now. I'd like I would, you know, just meet someone that is doing and interested in the things that you do.

Tayla: 20:20

Yeah, I'd be having to answer app person. Yeah, it's not easy, yeah, but yeah, I feel like people are looking for I don't know. So I this is based on shows I watch, and by shows I mean singular show. Of love is blind. The whole premise of love is blind was to kind of counteract this culture of looking at profile pictures and swiping based on appearance and all this stuff and being pretty shallow as to whether people will even see if they have a connection with someone is based on physical and it forces people to date where they can't see each other and they don't know anything about the physical side.

Tayla: 21:04

And that's why I like the show so much the first season, maybe even the first two seasons because it very much felt like people that really wanted to be in a relationship, wanted to be married, were really sick of dating the way that it was and it wasn't working for them and quite a few couples like found that it was. But it's quickly become just another one of those dating shows that, like the, for some reason, just the only people that they're costing are people that don't actually want to be married and they're hugely in relationships with other people, but they come on the show to get famous and to be reality show famous.

Tayla: 21:37

So that's a bummer, because the first and if you watch like, maybe one day I'll convince you to watch the first season it really was like I cried a few a couple of times, well, because I was like, wow, this is so cool. People just crave connections so much and they are just not finding it being judged on what not only what they look like, but what they present, that they look like on a daily basis.

Sam: 22:01

Yeah, honestly, it's, being in Miami made me very distrustful of how people really look, because they are like so done up for one, like a lot of makeup and a lot of stuff to look a certain way, and then there's obviously Photoshop and now face tuning, all sorts of things, and then, beyond that, there's not like people are just completely plastic surgery, everything, and so it's pretty weird to me, and so that's actually one of the things that I think when we started dating, I know I said it a bunch of like I'm just so glad that you're not like super into Instagram and to you know, having a social media presence and like having all that stuff, because I was like I'm so tired of dating people that are full of makeup, they're trying to look a certain way, they take certain photos and you know it's not how they really look.

Sam: 22:51

You know like, how you really look is when you wake up in the morning, you know when you go for a run and stuff like that, and so I like the way you look when you wake up and like it's still that way.

Sam: 23:04

You're like you know we'll like go out to a show or something and you're like wear a bunch of makeup not even a bunch of makeup and you're like how do I look?

Tayla: 23:10

I'm like meh.

Sam: 23:12

You're fine.

Tayla: 23:14

You don't need the makeup.

Sam: 23:16

Like, honestly, you look better without any of it, like that's the whole idea, you know. So now I'm just like even like I couldn't even imagine, like what does someone even look like?

Tayla: 23:27

So that's what that? So I'm wondering what it is about that that you don't like. So is it?

Sam: 23:31

here A couple of the fakeness.

Tayla: 23:32

Okay, oh, yeah, okay. So, but what is it about that? That is fake, I guess is that it's no, I guess. I guess, like I picked up a couple of reasons why you might not like that. One is trust right. If someone is doing things for a specific reason, like to appear a certain way or to have this many followers, or to whatever, then I think I feel like it's difficult to trust their motivations behind, maybe even the relationships and stuff. Would you say that that's yeah, that's accurate Part of the issue of someone that like focuses on that a lot, okay.

Tayla: 24:10

Another one was because I'm like I don't know. If someone does themselves up all the time every day and it's part of their routine, is that really a problem, since they look like that all the time? Maybe not, but maybe it's the maintenance aspect that like just wasn't appealing to you, that like you don't.

Sam: 24:31

No, because I fundamentally do not like.

Tayla: 24:36

You just don't find that kind of attractive.

Sam: 24:39

Yeah, that look and also I feel like if someone is doing all these hauntsments to their face and to their body, that isn't them. Like, what are you dating? You're dating the lipstick color. You're dating the you know her contouring. You're dating the Photoshop. You're dating, you know. Like that to me is you know you're not actually dating the person who they actually are.

Tayla: 25:10

It's taking quite the turn, but it's interesting. It's interesting to me because I feel like I was very much in high school I was very much that way of like oh, like you should be totally natural, and I would kind of judge girls that like took a lot of time to get ready and we're really done up, although I get the more I think like whatever makes people happy which I think you're that way too just because something makes me like you don't have to marry everyone and still feel that way. But I guess I just I feel like you can tell someone's intention and when they're doing something because they like it versus what they think other people like, it feels kind of different.

Sam: 25:48

And maybe that's part of what is an attractive to you too, is people seeking so much attention rather than it just Sure, yeah, like if someone's got, like you know is into an eyebrow ring and you know I found eyebrow rings attractive, or whatever like then you know there's a good match right there, and so you're not just dating them just because they're looked away, but you also the fact that they chose to get you know, face, face jewelry For me. Like again, like I don't like that.

Tayla: 26:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting, okay. So that that does make it hard, because I feel like and again this might be coming from a place of ignorance I'm assuming that a lot of people will pick pictures for their dating apps in which they're pretty well done up. It's like special occasion pictures, not just like normal everyday.

Sam: 26:39

You know, I don't know what it is now, but you could do is I would pick people that would have a variety of pictures, so you know you can look through multiple. Yes, I'm would at least. So, at least on their profile they'll be multiple, so like you obviously have a profile picture and then you'd have the main one, the main one. Then you'd have multiple photos and so you know, you can initially start looking at.

Tayla: 27:03

You know a profile and kind of piecing together what's actually looks like. Yeah, so okay, I follow someone on Instagram who will peer at. She's in her mid 30s and she'll periodically and I think it's a bit mean because she's kind of shaming the men on there Should they be shamed maybe? Because she'll periodically post screenshots of men from dating apps to kind of be like, why do you think women want this? And it's always like them not wearing very much or like them holding fish. That's a huge one. That's a burning joke of like.

Tayla: 27:40

For some reason, men really think this is very impressive to women that I've caught this massive fish and I got fishing. But I feel like that's got to be interesting to navigate because I imagine, from the man side to women, women have typical things that they are posting to like oh Jim, thank you, like Jim thing, or like them on a night out with their friends. Like they're posting almost just like the same generic kind of picture and men are doing the same. I just like wonder, do you just like doom scroll through dating apps the way that we, I feel like I sometimes do with social media?

Sam: 28:15

I'd assume so at this at this point? No, I didn't so.

Tayla: 28:19

You were like slow, methodical.

Sam: 28:22

A lot more intentional, you know again, because if I wanted access to just dating, I'm every like four or five nights a week I'm out at a club or out of.

Tayla: 28:33

Thing.

Sam: 28:34

Like, if you really want to just go and be with someone that looks like a certain way in certain lighting at a club. You can like it's, you have access to that. So when I was on the apps it was like purposeful. So I was a lot more intentional about it.

Tayla: 28:50

So what would you look for on an app that like kind of gave you good signs because you can't remember.

Sam: 28:57

Yeah, that's, the fact that they would have like a range of either activities or, you know, types of photos was super important, so it's not just like a catfish style. You know photos that I was just like. Hey, you know, here I am with you. Know, my nieces you know, at a park or something you know just.

Tayla: 29:19

Okay, so that makes someone seem grounded, yeah, Okay. So this initial interaction because again haven't done it, haven't received it of like I haven't met someone. Apparently we find each other attractive. Or I find you attractive, Like, how do you reach out? Oh, you know what I mean.

Sam: 29:40

That was okay. So right at the end of being on dating apps, I was on one called Bumble and that was the my favorite one, because the girls message first on that one. But all the other apps it's pretty much etiquette for guys to message first, so and how do you do it?

Tayla: 29:58

What do you say, hey?

Sam: 30:00

I just remember, not like I just you know being my weird self, like you know, you don't just say hey, what's up, you know you'd like launch into a conversation? I just started to do something like unusual. You know just, you know something that is topical, or you know. You know just, I really don't remember that. We're talking like seven years ago here.

Tayla: 30:25

Like four score and 30 years Like specific words.

Sam: 30:29

I'd use an opening line on like a dating app, but that's a lot to ask right now.

Tayla: 30:34

But I just, I do remember, just yeah, you, just, you know do you remember, like on Bumble then, when women would reach out to you what, what kind of?

Sam: 30:43

90% would just be generics, hey.

Tayla: 30:47

Oh, that's annoying, it was annoying, it was so annoying. I'm not gonna accept it.

Sam: 30:50

They were really lame. But the nice thing is I didn't have to think of something, so they had to do it. They could do it. They would just say, hey, I would then look at their profile and be like, for the most part, the Hayes would just be like in the trash. And then if someone actually took the time to say hey, what's up? I saw that you're super into this type of music or whatever.

Tayla: 31:09

Then you can start a conversation. Okay, so they engage with. Oh, so you have information on your profile too. Yeah, oh well, that makes it easy. Why are people being so lame?

Sam: 31:19

Doom scrolling.

Tayla: 31:20

I suppose you swipe and then say hey, they don't have like filled in like options of things you could just click on with AI.

Sam: 31:26

now I bet you there's a lot of AI stuff that just does it all for you. Oh, I hate that. Grab something from the profile and please come up with something witty, and they're pretty sure it's just constant now.

Tayla: 31:36

That's gotta be. That's gotta muddy the dating waters even more.

Sam: 31:39

Yeah, who are you really?

Tayla: 31:41

Yeah, literally yeah, and that's, I think, why my friends find so little success between those messaging and then meeting in person is you can't rely on that stuff when you're together.

Sam: 31:49

Yeah, so yeah. And I bet you I know you've never been on a dating app and if you were to have to date right now, I would suggest don't go on a dating app. I just don't think. I mean, just go meet people. That's so hard for people though too, Especially if people are spending most of the time working like and it's weird to try, yeah, but pick up some hobbies, go to like, go join like a hiking group or, like you know, people like to go.

Tayla: 32:15

You sound like such a dad. Go find someone real on the streets, go get a hobby. I know. But I think you're right. Okay, so here's an interesting part of dating that I didn't have to deal with either. Is this when you're on dating apps and you start dating someone more exclusively or, like now, you're dating like the etiquette with?

Sam: 32:39

The apps, the apps, yeah, no, I remember, I actually don't sorry.

Tayla: 32:43

I don't actually know when you stopped being on apps like in our.

Sam: 32:48

Oh, I don't think I was active on any apps like before us. Anyways, so for about at least six weeks before.

Tayla: 32:55

Okay, so it was just good timing.

Sam: 32:57

Yeah, okay, but like so there was no at no point during.

Tayla: 33:00

I think I was like oh, I should get off the app.

Sam: 33:02

I think actually I was probably still on like stuff and I think David either deactivated or shut down or whatever.

Tayla: 33:10

Okay, but yeah. So what's the? Cause that's got to kind of suck too, when you're like starting to see someone and you feel like, oh, I think we're making a real connection, we're not exclusive yet, but I think we're dating and then like your friends, like, hey, I just matched with the sky that you've been seeing.

Sam: 33:25

So just to quickly rewind it in terms of our love story, it was pretty funny cause.

Tayla: 33:30

Our love story.

Sam: 33:31

Six like I think it was like six weeks before me and Tayla started dating. I had sworn off woman.

Tayla: 33:37

And men.

Sam: 33:39

I had, I was like I'm going, I am done, cause it was just like, it was just always like.

Tayla: 33:46

What happened? Who hurt you?

Sam: 33:48

No one hurt me it was just, it just was exhausting, like it, just felt like it would.

Tayla: 33:53

You had just gotten out of a relationship. Yeah, at that point right, that made you think I'm done. Yeah.

Sam: 33:58

It's like well, not like done forever. I was like I need to take a break Like this. Like just I felt like I was like you date someone for like a couple of months and then you date someone for, so you'd meet a bunch of people, date someone for a couple of months, meet your bunch of people, date for a couple of months. Like this is exhausting, like, and so I was like I am done and so like I sold my house, I rehote my dog and I was under like getting you know, I was under contract for like stuff in Hawaii and I was going to move to Hawaii and like just Could be a beach bomb Could be a beach bomb.

Sam: 34:26

I sounded dope Like, and then that's when me and Tayla met in person.

Tayla: 34:31

In person. That's true at a child's birthday party.

Sam: 34:34

Yeah, so that's yeah Again, why I'm probably speaking like this.

Tayla: 34:40

Anyway, so fast forward, slash, rewind the etiquette of like cause you were on like there were previous relationships where you were like we're dating exclusively and maybe even previous to that, that in between like so what? How did you navigate it and did you did it? Was it a discussion? It was a discussion, the other?

Sam: 34:58

person too. So you'd have like and this happened multiple times you'd have a discussion like yeah, you know so, and this is how usually it happened.

Tayla: 35:04

Your face is such a sound.

Sam: 35:06

They would say to me like hey, just so you know, like I'm, I've deactivated such and such app or whatever, and you know, and they'd be like you don't have to, but you know, and so you'd be like you know. It's the conversation of like where, where are we kind of?

Tayla: 35:20

thing. So yeah, it was-. Does it happen at the same time as you're like we're exclusive?

Sam: 35:24

Yeah.

Tayla: 35:24

Yeah, okay, so part of that discussion is yeah. No more dating apps.

Sam: 35:30

Yeah.

Tayla: 35:31

Okay, interesting. Well, that simplifies that, I feel like. Is there any? Have you had any weirdness around like that in between, though, where you're like it's too soon to be like we're exclusive, but you are like dating, you know?

Sam: 35:43

you're not really seeing I don't remember honestly. Okay, there's not. It's not like sparking a memory.

Tayla: 35:49

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I feel like I'm among right around when we were dating and getting married is when people really started kind of marrying people that they'd met on apps and a lot of people didn't want to say that that's how they had met. But I was kind of like what does it matter? Yeah, but yeah, oh, we're touching toes, cute. Okay. Okay, let's see. Do, do, do, do, do Okay. How do you think cultural backgrounds, sexual orientations and other factors influence dating preferences and experiences?

Sam: 36:31

I. So I think here's one of the pros for all the dating apps is that you can segment and you can like filter by these things, and so you can actually see like your kind of group pool for dating, Whereas like Like, if someone's a real like a deal breaker, deal breaker stuff is like yeah, like religion, race, gender, if all those things are like super important to you.

Sam: 36:53

Like you know I'm into Asians or I'm like I'm. You know this is like laughing at me. I mean I'm into Mormon Asians or whatever it is. You're right.

Tayla: 37:05

Whatever your thing is you can find that?

Sam: 37:07

Yeah, exactly.

Tayla: 37:09

I feel like it probably is really helpful for especially like the LGBTQ plus community to be able to like.

Tayla: 37:15

It's a smaller demographic than traditional, and so that must be nice way to just kind of find people looking for the same thing Interesting, okay, hmm, all right, where do I want to go from here? Okay, well, you might not remember, so this might be very disinteresting, but it's kind of back to a little bit what we were just talking about, which is what was a deal, what was your biggest deal breakers when it came to someone's online dating profile, like you saw something or some things and you're like nope.

Sam: 37:47

Just off the top of my head. Anything that that that sent me down the like reminded me that this could be a club person, this could be someone that is so like. That was just an immediate turnoff to me.

Tayla: 38:00

So like if they made jokes about constantly being under the influence of yeah.

Sam: 38:05

Well, anything on the profile that was like photos of them, like you know, at a show or you know smoking. So it's anything, anything that was just like. This person is at a you know, this person is a nightlife person, okay.

Tayla: 38:16

So like who the hula hoopers? If you saw like EDM hula hoop thing, you were like no again, nothing, I'm not.

Sam: 38:25

I'm sure there's great people in those scenes. It's just it was very hard to differentiate that between the ones that were just socially climbing or not interested at all in a relationship.

Tayla: 38:38

Okay, so did you ever swipe? I don't know what direction? Yes, match, I'm interested on people that maybe you weren't, that they weren't unattractive to you, but they weren't particularly attractive to you or, like they, their type wasn't like your normal type.

Sam: 38:56

Yeah, so, especially um during the first like six months after divorce, I was just like I should probably broaden.

Tayla: 39:06

you know my type, so like Broadened from an Asian Mormon women demographic yeah.

Sam: 39:13

So cause I was like you know, I, I you know, I haven't dated every kind of type of person in the world. So, like you know, is there something? Am I missing something? Do I not understand? Like you know, culturally you know different, so yeah, so, like you, would swipe on people that looked different, oh yeah, so that like there'd be older or you know you know older than who I dated in the past, or you know just interested in different things. You know different music and you know different religions and yeah so.

Tayla: 39:48

Okay, okay, so I think I'm getting a picture, for I would consider you're a healthy person, thank you. So I'm using you as the gold standard for how to navigate online dating healthily. Thanks, which is to try and swipe based on effort, like someone just being more intentional or thoughtful about reaching out via app.

Sam: 40:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, is that a question? It is now. Yeah, what?

Tayla: 40:19

are your recommendations? I guess, I guess, I guess. I guess I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess. What are your recommendations If you were to be like hey, if you're going to do dating apps today, here's Sage Sam from Back in the Day to give you my advice on how to do it.

Sam: 40:35

Step one, obviously be safe. That'd be the most important thing, Like doesn't matter what? So being careful with your information online, you know. Ooh, we didn't even talk about that. That's like the very first thing I'd be careful with is, like making sure that the photos that you've got there's no like identifiers of, like, maybe, where you live and like you know, children's spaces yeah.

Sam: 40:54

Just be very careful with that because, sure, maybe there's some of the people that you're dating. It's not a big deal, but there's going to be just Rando's on the internet there all of a sudden. They can see your pictures, start stalking you and trying to find you in person and that'd be the very first thing.

Tayla: 41:07

That's horrifying.

Sam: 41:08

Second is being, you know, safe in person. So always go meet, you know, go to a coffee shop or somewhere safe.

Tayla: 41:15

Tell someone you're meeting someone you don't know.

Sam: 41:18

Definitely don't go home with them the very first night, even if you don't do anything like that's a safety thing, because you're going to go away from public. I would give it, you know, a couple of dates at least.

Tayla: 41:31

That's going to be horrible to try and figure out. At what point do I feel like I know someone well enough, right, exactly that they won't murder me, or something?

Sam: 41:39

Yeah, so even if it's like I like to try like also involve like a, like a hey, come hang out with my friends off.

Tayla: 41:45

It's like, hey, let's go to the coffee shops, the thing.

Sam: 41:47

And then, hey, I've got a buddy that's doing this, this and this. Pop by it for a while so that the person could see that I'm not, but you know.

Tayla: 41:55

I have friends and other people and you know like yeah.

Sam: 41:59

So that's what I would do to make people feel comfortable and not make it because we sound like an intentional. What's that?

Tayla: 42:06

show you. Yeah, you're like trying to seem normal, I've got all these like things. Anyways. So what a normal person would do then?

Sam: 42:14

after all the safety things out the way.

Tayla: 42:16

And if I was to, don't send pictures of yourself to people Nudes oh yeah, no, don't do Nudes.

Sam: 42:23

That's, that's pretty dumb.

Tayla: 42:24

It's just dumb yeah.

Sam: 42:25

If you want to see each other naked, go like through the process of dating for a hot second and then do it.

Tayla: 42:31

I mean you just, it's just dangerous to send pictures of yourself that are in compromising situations to anyone, because you just have no idea what they'll do.

Sam: 42:40

Exactly, or at least cut your head off so like. So they can't see.

Tayla: 42:44

Yeah, that's not an identifier. All right, I'm just wanting to get a sage Sam, I'm giving these pro tips.

Sam: 42:52

Anyways, and then, yeah, I think, in terms of like, actually, if you, if you're looking for an actual relationship and not just you're just trying to see what you can get, yeah, I would start to be a little bit more broad in how you're finding people Like don't just you know, look, if you don't want to date A player, don't you know choose or swipe or whatever on people that look like players, like they're literally going to or communicate like that, and yeah, yeah.

Sam: 43:24

Like I mean, what do you expect? You're going to change this guy or this girl to suddenly, you know, settle down with you, and that's not how it works.

Sam: 43:32

No so look for people that have common interests in you. That will save a lot of time. So if you like to hike and if you like to be active, date people that like to hike and be active. You know, because you might end up going on a lot of dates and that you know. You find that you just don't click because you just don't have a lot of the same things, but but still try to broaden on things that aren't maybe deal breakers for you.

Tayla: 43:58

So yeah, yeah, um, it's got to be a hard line or a fine line between being choosy because you should be choosy about someone, especially if you plan to try and spend the rest of your life with them, or most of it, but also like being realistic, that people are people and are not going to be perfect and you're not going to be like super jazzed about them all the time.

Sam: 44:21

And here's some just general dating advice Like, even if you meet them in person, just be chill for the first little bit. Like I know you, maybe you're feeling anxious about like how to progress relationships quicker because you've been through so many dates, but that's just going to put any potential person that would be a good fit. Like put them off and might scare them off because you, you know you'll be like, wow, this person's intense or this person's desperate or this person's, whatever it is, even if you like really really want to and you're a little, you know the anxiety and you is telling you to like, let me be completely upfront and honest with this person. Just be chill, just get to know them a little bit better. And like, that's going to be my general dating advice Like, just remember it's just a date you get, just you just getting to know them. Like, just be chill and have a, have a fun time with them.

Tayla: 45:08

That's funny, cause I was just about to start talking about how, like how, could we be more honest and include more honesty?

Sam: 45:17

I was literally the opposite of what the girls need to hear, Tayla.

Tayla: 45:25

No, I'm talking about men. Men, being more honest.

Sam: 45:29

Sure.

Tayla: 45:30

No, I mean how to do that right, cause I think again, some of the biggest issues sorry, some of the biggest issues I feel like around online dating in general, modern dating, is trust, is lack of like real honesty.

Sam: 45:44

You're just saying it's just about timing, that no, yeah, so you can still be transparent and honest, but not weird. Not weird about it and also not like intense about it. And you know it's, this is not an interview. You're not like interviewing it at that stage, like hopefully it's. You know, you've had a few phone calls, texting and FaceTime and stuff and then in person there's still going to be like a completely different chemistry in person and you know you know, trying not to make it a job interview, yeah, but try to give the great that transition some grace, I think.

Sam: 46:19

Yeah, like, think about our thing. Like it's I was literally about to bring that up yeah, like, I was transparent with you, but it wasn't just like and now we should date and now we just it was just like, it was this transparency, but it's, at the same time, hopefully felt chill about the whole thing. It wasn't like, oh, do I have to do something about it? Now it's like no.

Tayla: 46:37

Kind of right.

Sam: 46:39

I mean, I think our family connection made it a little more like oh, when you're dating, dating, yeah, oh, that was off to the other stuff.

Tayla: 46:46

Kind of. So you told me you were pretty upfront and you were like when you decided you liked me, you told me you liked me, you asked me on dates. But then we had that week. We kind of like online dated for the week. You made me be off to that first date because we were out of town both of us and that was interesting because, thinking back, it was good, interesting, different. We did spend the time getting to know each other a little bit, but it felt a little bit weird to then be in person again because I'm like I feel like I know you so much better than I did the last time I saw you, but it still feels like a fresh interaction because we've never actually talked, we haven't talked to each other, but I feel like we navigated it pretty well. I feel like you put in a lot of effort, to put in effort, if that makes sense, like I had my birthday over that time. Do you remember what you did I?

Sam: 47:36

sent you an email. You asked me for my email address. I sent you an email. Ask me why. Why do you think I did that?

Tayla: 47:44

Why.

Sam: 47:45

Because everyone else was gonna text you, and getting an email would be something a little weird and a little different, like I said, like and it was, it was.

Tayla: 47:54

He's like what's your email address? I'm like why do you want my email address?

Sam: 47:57

we're texting right now, you're gonna send me one of those gift birthday cards.

Tayla: 48:00

I didn't know what he was gonna send me, but I'm gonna pull up that email right now.

Sam: 48:04

I'm gonna read it, oh no.

Tayla: 48:07

Okay, have you even heard about this or looked at it since? Nope, okay, and I have my reply too. This is so cute. All right, seventh of March 2016. Hey Tayla, just wanted to wish you a happy birthday. Hope today ends up being super awesome. I'm really glad I know you Even before last week. You've always been someone I admire and think you're gonna do some amazing things and make the world a better place. Thanks for being true to yourself. Keep kicking ass, sam. And my response was hey, gone wilder, because that's Part of the username of your email address.

Sam: 48:44

It's a call back to a movie called Ben Wilder. Okay.

Tayla: 48:48

Thanks for your email. This made my day. You're incredibly sweet. Go kiss a dolphin for me.

Sam: 48:53

Oh yeah, cause I was in, yeah, miami, Not Miami. I was in Florida, like Destin Florida or something.

Tayla: 48:57

Yeah, yeah, and that's it.

Sam: 48:59

Funny enough with that Texas family.

Tayla: 49:01

With the same Texas family, so good. So that's kind of fun to think back in and I think you can be kind of unique and I think you can. There's a way to put thought into things like this without being like too like I'm doing this to get a reaction or I'm doing this to be different, if that makes sense.

Sam: 49:22

Yeah, I just wanted to give you a genuine like hey, thank you like genuine, like wishing you a happy birthday.

Tayla: 49:28

Yeah, like a little extra effort, but you didn't do anything crazy. You didn't like we'd been on one day, you didn't like sense stuff to me or do anything crazy, but it was sweet and remember. I still think about it because I remember thinking, wow, that's pretty weird, but in a good way. So you guys should all take Sam's advice on online dating, cause he got the biggest prize of them all me. Thanks for listening to the Babe. What do you know about podcast?

Sam: 50:00

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