The Science of Giving

Ever wondered why giving gifts can sometimes feel even more rewarding than receiving them? We're here to tell you that it's not just in your head. There's actual science behind the warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you hand over a carefully chosen present to a loved one. Tune in to our latest episode where we unravel the mysteries of the science behind giving, exploring how it activates the same pleasure centers in our brain as munching on your favorite treat or enjoying a relaxing day at the spa. We'll also share a treasure trove of studies that suggest regular acts of generosity could lead to a host of health benefits, from lower blood pressure to a more robust immune system. 

But giving isn't all science and stats. Listen in as we share raw, personal experiences with giving, the joy it brings, and the surprising role guilt sometimes plays in this act. We'll take you on a journey, exploring how the simple act of generosity can ripple out, impacting our relationships and communities in profound ways. You'll hear about how communal generosity led to over a million dollars being raised to forgive medical debt, and the remarkable culture of giving within the Mormon community. We'll discuss the challenges of maintaining consistent generosity, and share some wisdom from MIT on how to cultivate the habit of giving. Get ready to be inspired, enlightened, and perhaps even motivated to give a little more. So, join us, and let's celebrate the spirit of giving together, not just during the holidays, but all year round.

Transcript

Sam: 0:10

Welcome to Babe. What do you know about the podcast with your favorite husband and wife duo, Sam

Tayla: 0:16

and Tayla. Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.

Sam: 0:24

Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way. I.

Tayla: 0:33

Don't think I've asked you this, but favorite Christmas tradition as a child, specifically that your family did oh, that's the easiest answer is just really.

Sam: 0:43

Because we didn't have a lot, but the main thing was All four of us boys would get to go. You know, went through it, all four of us awake and open a present by ourselves. You got to just choose one at random like a small thing, because they always be like a big present for Later, you know okay, so you actually liked the little one at first. Oh yeah, Because you know mom and dad would want to sleep in a little bit longer always Did you Were you taught to believe in Santa at any point?

Sam: 1:20

not me, but I'm the third oh. Child, so maybe they'd given up at this point perhaps so you didn't have any like logistics.

Tayla: 1:28

So they have quite a few friends of mine being like hey, how do you handle Santa? Like, do they get presents from Santa? Do they like all this stuff? But I didn't ever get presents from Santa as a kid. I I Don't think we even thought about where the presents came from in conjunction with Santa. I knew he dropped them off, but it was always like from mom and dad.

Sam: 1:52

You know, yeah, that's kind of Same.

Tayla: 1:55

Yeah, I just didn't worry about it. I guess Eventually, as we got a bit older, it it came out that the stockings were from Santa, who we didn't call Santa, we called him Father Christmas but yeah. So a stocking stuff was Father Christmas related. My parents got credit for the big stuff, which is warranted because they paid for all of it.

Sam: 2:16

Yeah.

Tayla: 2:18

So just starting to navigate these traditions as parents is funny. But in the spirit of the season we are gonna have topic that is Christmas Eve, but not too Christmasy. I think we're gonna be talking about the spirit of giving or no, the science of giving. I guess the spirit of giving will be talked about. The topic is the science of giving. So I mean in my intro Okay, you ready?

Sam: 2:48

Yeah.

Tayla: 2:48

All right. Giving activates the same reward pathways in the brain as pleasurable activities like eating or having sex. Studies have even shown that people who give regularly have lower blood pressure, reduced stress levels and a stronger immune system. 90% of people reported feeling happier and more fulfilled after giving to others. And let's not forget the domino effect of kindness when we see others being generous, it typically inspires others to do the same. The holiday season is a time when many people feel the urge to give back. In fact, americans donate an average of four hundred and fifty billion dollars To charities each year during the holidays. But the benefits of giving go far beyond the holiday season. Giving can be a powerful tool to Boosting our own happiness and well-being all year round. So, babe, what do you know about the science of giving?

Sam: 3:40

Nothing.

Tayla: 3:41

Is it?

Sam: 3:42

Yes.

Tayla: 3:44

All right, well, let's talk a bit about it then. So there are a few Articles on brain chemicals released when we give and how they impact our mood and well-being. So there was a news by MIT or a news we should probably record earlier in the day, typically having speaking issues, but the article by MIT speaks about how dopamine dopamine drives brain activity and giving activates that dopamine, which is part of why giving is such a mood booster interesting. Have you experienced that physiologically upon being generous or giving or something like that?

Sam: 4:32

No, I mean honestly like no.

Tayla: 4:38

Say more.

Sam: 4:44

I yeah, I mean.

Tayla: 4:48

Is it because you don't give that much, or is it in the experience of giving that you don't experience like a Physiological or a psychological boost from that?

Sam: 4:57

Yeah, I Really I don't. Maybe that's I'm, maybe that's why I'm such a grinch. I Know my mom does like, because my mom's a gift giver. She that's very much, so that's like her. All her language like it's, it's about gift-giving, so Now she's very thoughtful with it.

Tayla: 5:18

It's definitely more the thought than the thing.

Sam: 5:21

Yeah, and there's a lot of preparation that goes into it and yeah, I should ask her if she gets like a. Mood boost from that. I bet you she does.

Tayla: 5:31

I bet you she does, she seems to. I Definitely do. I feel like whenever I've done a Kind of generous thing that was related to giving, specifically that usually, for the most part, it is something that I feel good about and think about. I don't know if it's just like Selfishly. We need to feel good about ourselves. That's something I look back on like, yeah, I am a good person. I don't know what it is, but I do. You know, if I have someone you know leaving the Department store and someone's there with a sign, I'll, if I have money, I will give it to them, and I feel good about it. It makes me feel Happy. But I also wonder how much of that is related to like how I would feel if I just went past and didn't help so the up, so you don't.

Sam: 6:26

I feel guilt.

Tayla: 6:28

Yeah, I think I do feel a strong sense of Guilt. If I can do something to help another person and I don't I choose not to. You know different. When I can't, yeah, I feel like that's easier for me to handle that.

Sam: 6:43

Yeah. I don't know if so, I don't feel the guilty though, so maybe that's like the balance of it.

Tayla: 6:50

Don't feel emotion. You don't have feelings anymore. I'm being. I'm past feelings. They're like a woman you've lived too long alive.

Sam: 7:00

No, no, I feel like I'm a giving person, you know. I feel like I often give in. You know, or Blend don't know what the appropriate word for that is but, um, you know and help. I feel like I'm very helpful. But maybe maybe I'm trying, maybe it's more like logical than emotional for me. Yeah, so I guess on the plus side, I don't, I don't get that guilty feeling. Well, maybe that's a negative, maybe, maybe almost.

Tayla: 7:32

Maybe you're missing a huge part of the human experience, maybe? Um? So studies also reveal that, let's see, giving plays an enhancing role in life, because it enhances a sense of purpose and meaning in life, and I wonder if you just already have such a strong sense of purpose and meaning of life that you don't look for it elsewhere.

Sam: 8:04

Yeah, that might be it. I mean, this is good therapy. But yeah, I feel very content with my life and it's like things that I've done and people, relationships are relationships that I've got. So but yeah, again, it's not that I'm not giving, it makes me sound like a psychopath but he's, he's.

Tayla: 8:26

What is the Christmas Carol guy Scrooge? He's a Scrooge. Hordes all his everything. What Just kidding? No, not true.

Sam: 8:37

Yeah, so I mean I really take care of my, like my circle, you know my, you know family and my network, but I don't often help strangers. No, I don't. But I also, you know, don't mind, like you know, because I volunteered at the food and care coalition. Those things are beneficial and helpful to your community. But no, when I see someone on the side of the road begging, I don't go. Oh man, I feel guilty this. I need to give this guy some money or anything.

Tayla: 9:11

No, yeah and again. Just because I experienced guilt by not helping doesn't mean that that's my primary motivation.

Sam: 9:17

Yeah, no, I feel like, as we're going through this, I'm realizing, just you know it is there. How much, how much weaker. That makes you guilted into giving your coins to someone with a sign.

Tayla: 9:37

Like I just said, but I feel like you came up with that before I said it. No, I would say my primary, primary motivation is maybe it's just altruism in general, Like if they're and I kind of am this way with a lot of things that if there's not a reason to still coughing.

Tayla: 9:57

I know if there's not a reason to say no to something. I typically don't so like with Ella if she asks for I don't know a treat or something, or to do something. If there isn't really a reason to say no, I won't. I won't do it out of principle or whatever. And maybe that's the case with giving is that when I'm faced with an opportunity to give and there isn't a reason to say no, I won't. If there is, then I don't like I don't have cash, I won't give it and I won't feel bad about it.

Tayla: 10:26

I wouldn't think about it. How much weaker. Obviously a joke, but but an interesting thought, though I think as well, is just maybe maybe you have a stronger sense of boundaries Is bending under the table to try and not cough into this.

Sam: 10:50

Hopefully you can just edit out my cough somehow with some magic software, because this is rough.

Tayla: 10:55

Sounds like a lot of work. Sounds like a lot of work on my part. Maybe I could do it.

Sam: 10:57

I bet you could.

Tayla: 10:59

Yeah, I'd have to pay for it then you know. But I do feel like I feel more connected to humanity when I am giving, and maybe that's part of the. The immune boost is, you feel like I'm a part of a community and maybe it's that thing in the back of my mind that if things were really bad for me, that someone would help. I wouldn't be all alone. Someone in society would have a heart big enough to like assist me.

Sam: 11:29

Yeah, no, I get that. I think I'd be doing some mindfulness, as we've been talking here, and I think for me it's trying to understand what is my realistic bandwidth and what is my realistic resources and prioritizing those to, you know, first your spouse, then your children, then, you know, your siblings and your parents, and then your etc, etc, etc, as you expand out. And so I feel like at some point I've just, you know, have a cut off and you know I don't think about, okay, what can I do special for this person here, because I know like, hey, I haven't done enough, or I've really spent it all, or it's already bandwidth to this more closer, you know, family unit.

Tayla: 12:19

Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like I'm not so organized or whatever the case may be, though I think that's true that you should prioritize those that rely upon you and that you have invested most of your life towards, like spouse, children, etc. I don't think they're really in the same circle, like strangers and people that I could give to or help Don't weigh in as much, like it's just not in the same Venn diagram. If that makes sense, maybe it should be. I feel like if I gave more than I do, it would start to affect those other parts of my life, but I don't. I feel like I give medium Lee. So something else that cities will speak a lot about is this idea that giving is contagious.

Tayla: 13:16

Yeah, no, I agree being exposed to generous behavior like yields, more generous behavior. Why do you think that is?

Sam: 13:26

I think, if we're talking about the science of it, I guess would be. My understanding is that both people get a dopamine hit you know. If we're talking about science, you know. So both people feel good. You know ones receiving kindness, you know, and then they go. Oh, I want someone else to feel this too. So definitely, I think. So you know, we've talked about in the podcast before how how much our family received when we immigrated here.

Tayla: 13:54

True.

Sam: 13:55

That that was like a very like important time in my life where our family was just taking care of financially. You know we had literally nothing. And then the the local church and community just really behind us and like, got us clothes and you know food from the, from you know the congregation's food storehouse and you know, I think that's also when I learned how to just be grateful, like, like a lot of times I think at least this is what, like I've read in books as I got an older, trying to understand it was is that a lot of times it's hard just to be the person on the receiving end because you know, maybe there's, like you said, it's a pride, sense of like, oh, like, I want to be able to do this on my own, etc. Receiving charity. But in that period I learned just how important it is for the, for the giver, to see someone genuine, genuinely grateful for it and they don't need or want anything return. And it's just learning to like, like, accept a compliment, you know, be like Thank you, I really appreciate that. Or when someone you know was kind, it's really is Thank you, I really appreciate that. And then showing gratitude and whatever way you can, I think that that's a.

Sam: 15:19

That's something that I learned how to do in that period. So I think part of it is also learning to be someone that receives gifts and kindness. So I think that probably helped with my relationship with my mom. You know, just learning to, because it's very easy to be like, no, mom, you don't need to do that. Hey, you know, like I'm an adult, no, you don't need to buy me a pair of shoes. But she loves giving, you know, a good gift for me. And so it's like yeah, here's a pair of shoes, I'd love a pair of shoes.

Tayla: 15:48

and then being kind of see it for what it is.

Sam: 15:50

Yeah exactly, so maybe that's the science behind it is, is you feel it feels really nice when someone does something nice for you, and so you just want to pause it on.

Tayla: 16:02

Yeah, I think there's definitely the sorry, kind of ramble no no, it's.

Tayla: 16:08

I mean that's, that's what we do. There's, there is something cool to that. Communal thinking is almost groupthink that typically is spoken about in a negative sense groupthink, but I think it can have really cool consequences. For example, I follow Sharon McMahon on Instagram religiously. I'm obsessed with her, I love her. She's amazing. Sharon says so and we raised in I think it was a week over $1 million to go towards buying and forgiving medical debt. And the reason that that it's such a cool thing is that with just $1 million which is a hell of a lot of money, but just with $1 million you can buy, you can forgive over $100 million of medical debt because of how ridiculous the system is.

Tayla: 17:09

But people who literally can't afford to pay their medical bills will just, for no reason, with no catch and no obligation, they'll get a letter in the mail saying that their medical debt was forgiven.

Sam: 17:19

Well, that was really nice of you guys. Yeah, just like.

Tayla: 17:24

I mean, she only has maybe a million and a half followers and somehow she's just able. You know, when she picks something to really focus on, she does it in such an effective way which is like whatever is in your van, like, just send me the 50 cents, it will add up. There's a million of you send me the 50 cents and that's what I think people do. They send very little two bucks, three bucks that's why I'd send like five bucks, you know, and it really added up. But it was some something about how she has grown. Her community made it so that together we could accomplish so much with giving specifically. And I do think I wonder, I don't know I definitely felt a part of something really special to watch something grow and grow and grow. Even though I just one time went through the act to Venmo her five bucks to put towards this, the whole time I was getting updates and seeing how much we had, I was like that's us. We did this. You know, I did this. It was very cool and you can do so much that way We've spoken about this on other episodes that you can have such strong political impact with just a little bit.

Tayla: 18:34

It doesn't take much, but people just don't put towards much effort at all and so it feels insurmountable. But giving is, in a lot of ways it's a culture, and when you see that emulated successfully with people around you, I think you feel a part of that all you want to be, and so you exhibit the same behaviors and that's how you, I think, get into a culture of giving. I think that's why the holiday time is such a strong time for giving, because we see that we see other people being like oh, we're focusing on how much we have and how much you know people don't have, and collectively, socially, we're thinking about it and raising a lot and doing a lot for people.

Sam: 19:18

Yeah, it's actually one of the things I like about the Mormon culture you know in Utah well, I guess around the world is. It is a culture of giving and of donating and of kindness, so it's definitely a value that is like something that you should take away from the community and something that you should like want to replicate. I think, that's part of you know. You've got a few million Mormons getting a bunch of dopamine hits, you know feeling good, and then on the plus side, then they're also helping their community because you know that's it's valuable.

Tayla: 19:55

Yeah. So let's think about this. This is the time of year. It's that time of year, as Olaf says and. I'm clearly a parent of a three year old Um, so how can we incorporate the science of giving into holiday traditions in a way that is healthy and contributes to that culture?

Sam: 20:18

Um, you know I've I mean something that we haven't done. Well, maybe you did it with me before we had the kids was we went and donated some time around this time of year. Um, I think, for me, coordinated efforts I think that's why it feels so valuable with the examples that you brought up is when you are able to coordinate, um giving, the outcome is far better than, you know, giving a dollar or $2, $5 to someone on the side of the street, right, it's just being able to collectively come together and be like here, here's a bigger thing, and so it would be good to be able to start to create some sort of additional community service. I think you know you can either tap into stuff that are already organized that you know clicks with you. Yeah, so, if it's, I brought the example of the food and care coalition just because it's, you know, one of the things that we've participated a few times in, and but I know there's a number of things that are going around.

Sam: 21:22

You know, I do know the local congregation always has something, you know, Yep. So maybe it's it's teaching from a young age. Maybe it's a good opportunity for us to tap into something, just so that they can they can see the process of it.

Tayla: 21:37

Yeah, so my company has a very strong sub for Santa initiative every year. So I've been able to see this was my second year being in the company at Christmas time and it's very cool because we're literally able to help Thousands of kids with Christmas gifts all from donated money and time, volunteer time at this time, and the company supports it by letting us leave during work hours to go do shopping for the sub for Santa, go wrap in the gym for sub for Santa, and that's one thing that I really like about my company is that it makes it very easy to be more connected to the community and giving back, because it's part of the DNA of the company I work for. It's what they do. But one thing that I also noticed was a bunch of people would come during the work hours during the week that was designated for us to be excused to volunteer for that time if we wanted to.

Tayla: 22:39

Um was? I noticed a lot of coworkers, a lot of people had their wives or husbands and kids meet them at the gym to wrap. I didn't even know or think about that as an option, but I think it would be a very, very cool thing to do is if you're involved in something or you happen to be in a community whether it's a congregation or a work community or whatever the case may be where you have that concerted effort towards something to just include your kids somehow, like even just having them be there watching me wrap presents for the kids would be a good experience for them, I think.

Sam: 23:17

Yeah, I agree.

Tayla: 23:20

So one thing that can be hard about giving at this time of year, though, is that budgets are typically tighter because you're trying to focus on your sphere of influence and people that, particularly the kids that you need to take care of. Um, but also holidays, can be very overwhelming. They can feel stressful, they can feel just like a lot Like a lot, so how do you think, how have you managed to balance this idea of being more concerted in an effort to give Um while not allowing that to kind of overtake the rest of the hustle and bustle of the honestly?

Sam: 24:00

horrible and again, I don't feel guilty about it, but I haven't done any thinking like that since you've had the kids. I mean, max has won, it was three, so it's kind of been. That's where all my capacity seems to be going and thinking about at the moment. Um, but it's not. It's not bad, you know, to see what you can see what resources that you have that could be extra, or maybe it's like one of the things that we could do. You know you go through your old clothes, go through old toys, go through stuff that you know really haven't spent enough time doing, that you don't use very much and can use this time of year as to focus on like, hey, let me clean out things that someone else could actually use.

Tayla: 24:48

Yeah, and that would the boxing day idea.

Sam: 24:50

Yeah, exactly the boxing day. So, yeah, um, I think it's hard with at least for me, I've noticed it's been really hard to think outside of your sphere with the little kids, because it's like they're so vulnerable at this time that I all I think about is like okay, I got to have more to be able to provide if there's six or seven years old, and now eight years old, you know, and you kind of start to map out all the resources you need till they're 18. So, yeah, it's, it's. It really is kind of hard to start thinking outside of that.

Tayla: 25:21

You know, at this stage, I think just being aware of bandwidth is helpful as well, and either I mean depth rather than breadth might be a good way to think about it is, if you have the bandwidth to do one nice thing that's outside of your direct sphere, then do that one thing and feel good about it, rather than trying to go all out like some people do, which I admire very much. But, um, it doesn't have to be big Like. I have a this friend, claudia, in. She lives in Texas.

Tayla: 25:54

She's stayed her mom to really, um, adorable little girls same age as her kid. They're little and um, she was telling me the other day that she's trying to think of just small things to do for people in the community that they may not know that well but that really make their community feel like a community to them. So they go to the library pretty often. So she's thinking of things she might want to give to some of the library workers or to there's this sushi maker at the local grocery store that makes a concerted effort to say hi and recognize and they haven't had a conversation or anything but he makes the community feel like a community. I think that's very sweet, whether it's just a card that the kids color in that as you're going about your day.

Tayla: 26:40

I think that was a very sweet thing that she thought about. That is that is doable. That's totally doable. If you have some downtime, have your kids scribble on some cards, and I think it's just like we said earlier with your mom, it's very much the thought that counts more than anything else, and for me, things that have been more touching than others has not been a perfect, huge gift so much as something that was just thoughtful.

Sam: 27:05

Yeah.

Tayla: 27:07

So I think focusing on that would be a good way to try and manage the stress of the year not putting such high expectations on oh well, these people have ribbons on theirs and this person's done it for everyone in our whole neighborhood and, whatever the case, maybe, yeah yeah. So you spoke about how you learned to be grateful by being given two. So what do you think are some strategies for encouraging gratitude, maybe in generosity in our children during the holiday season, Cause that's a hard thing to teach?

Tayla: 27:45

Yeah, I don't it's a little, but I think it is important to think about.

Sam: 27:48

I think teaching the manners of it obviously is something I think you can control, but I think helping kids learn gratitude is much more of a you know you create the environment for it, the opportunity for it, and also to give them an opportunity to mirror and to see us as adults do it. And so I think again, providing them an opportunity to see giving and us working and then seeing people be grateful is very good, and then, on the flip side, having them see you receive a gift or receive kindness and then to show genuine gratitude is something that they can hopefully pick up and learn over time.

Tayla: 28:38

Yeah, I think good call outs that's typical with just kids in general. Is this idea of consistency right? Just consistently showing that? I think that can be hard at the holiday season because kids are typically not in their normal routine, they're overtired, they're given a lot more sugar than they should be and they can be a little wild and a lot of people that don't know kids very well could think that that's entitled behavior or it's bad behavior by kids that are not that way. I don't know how to manage you know when little kids especially are having a hard time at Christmas time, acting grateful, so to speak, even if you know that they are.

Sam: 29:22

I think maybe even if it's before you go to your parents or the in-laws or something and they see a gift exchange between us and then how we show gratitude, genuine gratitude, with their focused attention might be a lot easier than when you're in a bigger group.

Tayla: 29:41

Yeah, that's a great call out. Just trying to almost have almost giving them a little practice runs leading up to the heightened situation. That's a great idea If someone is interested in cultivating the habit of giving. There are a few recommendations that MIT gives to start doing that. The first one is to start small, which we spoken just a little bit about, which is doable. Small acts of kindness can definitely have a positive impact and I think by focusing on the impact rather than the initial act of kindness and giving, there's a good way to think about it. The next suggestion is to find something you're passionate about. Speak to me about that. Is there anything that you have experienced that has been easier to be generous about because you're passionate about?

Sam: 30:32

it. Yeah. So I'd say like my second career and my life around music had everything to do with giving in a way.

Tayla: 30:41

So yeah, more context for that.

Sam: 30:45

So I started a music group called Approaching Nirvana, and the reason it was named that is that I realized that we were all on our own individual paths of trying to fund our happiness, and so that phrase Approaching Nirvana you know that journey, and I was finding that through music and so I kind of gave up on a career to just do this music thing.

Sam: 31:10

So it was making me happy and then along the way we grew a fan base in the community and basically every community would get together for a live stream where we'd have a big group of people and the thing that we would always talk about is helping others have courage to chase what makes, or follow or try and achieve what makes them happy.

Sam: 31:38

And that can be, it's different for everyone else. You know, some people wanna be doctors and some people wanna be race car drivers and some people wanna paint and some people wanna make music. So, whatever it is and we also would push and understand you of like, we all have challenges that we all have to face that are individual to ourselves, and it doesn't make you know, my challenge is one thing and someone else is another thing. It doesn't make anyone, you know, lesser or or better based on what kind of challenges they are and just learning how to support them in your individual challenges. And so we kind of had a very interesting community where it's like we're music producers, we're DJs, but we talked so much about kind of like this pseudo spiritual kind of you know how to be happy, kind of stuff.

Sam: 32:25

And then you know the community was a very giving community. You know a very like social community where there was just a lot of kindness and even monetarily.

Tayla: 32:34

Generosity, generosity.

Sam: 32:35

So yeah, it's, you know, got to have a lot of effect in that community, so that felt really good. So what was the question?

Tayla: 32:47

Being passionate about something making it. That will make it easier to be.

Sam: 32:51

Yeah, so we're very passionate. I was very passionate about that ideal and so being able to share that ideal with other people and you know people gravitate towards it and then they're able to share that same passion and that ideal with others and seeing that grow out, that felt really good. Seeing other people all adopt that sort of ideal and seeing them become happier and chase their dreams, and you know yeah, definitely the most animated.

Tayla: 33:18

I've heard you speak this episode about the idea of giving is that emotional connection that you have with that? So I think that is great advice, evidenced by that that if you're passionate about something, you will find it easier to be generous and to do more related to that, and I've definitely found that to be true for me as well. The next recommendation is just two. More is to make giving a regular habit. So sitting aside either time each week or month to volunteer or donate to charity or perform acts of kindness for others and I will say that's a lot of things, sorry, that's something that churchgoers typically have down is a habit of giving, whether that's tithes to church or with that volunteering at the church, teaching, going to activities that are social together. I think that's definitely part of what makes them such a generous people typically is because of that exposure, which is cool and same without my company that's. It's such a common.

Tayla: 34:27

We're always working on some sort of giving back initiative that makes it simple to do. It's not, you know, again, it's just that idea of something being insurmountable. It doesn't feel that way when you're exposed to it a lot. And then the last one is to get others involved, says giving can be more rewarding when you do it with others. Encourage friends, family and the colleagues to join you in making a difference.

Tayla: 34:51

That community aspect, it seems like giving, is really a huge part of what makes giving not only effective, but even work is others as people focused, which I think is great, which is why, when it comes down to it, why I even want my children to be kind, giving generous people, is because that's a way for them to humanize people around them, and so much of the crap in this world is due to dehumanization and I don't think you can dehumanize people or groups of people or individuals that you are giving towards that you are helping, and I would want them to have everyone be humanized to them. So maybe that's why, why I'm so interested in them garnering that, that habit. So, if you do, you have any resolutions related to giving based on our conversation?

Sam: 35:54

Yeah, I've got boxes and totes full of old clothes that's got to go somewhere. And we say old, just smaller clothes, not even clothes that no longer fit you. Yeah, so that could go find a new home.

Tayla: 36:11

So you've thought of something that you want to do that you could just as easily just chuck out.

Sam: 36:16

But yeah or just yeah. It's just sitting right there. It's been sitting there for like a year yeah.

Tayla: 36:21

Yeah, okay, I like that. Oh, and sorry, the second one that I didn't mean to.

Sam: 36:25

No, please, please is on Christmas Eve. Maybe start a tradition where the kids get to watch a gift exchange between mom and dad and we can involve them like hey, do you want to help me give a gift to mom?

Tayla: 36:37

and you know like a little family exchange. We could do that, maybe with our Christmas pajamas, we could do that the night before. That would be lovely, I think. Yeah, my resolution is similar to yours, which is, when I have excess, I need to first of all, be grateful that I live the kind of life in which I have excess my life but to do something with it rather than just letting it sit somewhere in storage. But also, one thing I do want to do is to really be intentional about the boxing day tradition, which, for those of you hugely Americans that don't know, the day after Christmas, the 26, is for most former or current British colonies it's boxing day, and the idea is that you, the day after Christmas, you box up all your old toys or things that you no longer use and donate them, and I think that would be a lovely thing to intention, like we've always. I know it's boxing day, but I don't actually do the boxing day tradition. I think I would like to do that.

Sam: 37:38

Yeah, sounds great.

Tayla: 37:41

We will ask you guys on social media what your giving traditions are or what you hope that they will be. Either way, we hope that you all have. We're probably going to take a couple weeks of a break after this episode. It's also our 50th episode. Wow, can you believe that?

Sam: 37:56

No 50.

Tayla: 37:58

That's a lot of hours of talking to each other, never mind to the void. So happy 50th episode to us, but we'll probably take just a little bit of a break for the next couple of weeks to focus on our kids and get through the rest of this year. Next time you hear from us, sam will probably be a 40 year old officially, but thank you for listening. That is a form of giving that when people I know. So there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast that I don't know, but the people that I do know that are like hey, I listened to your episode on this and I thought this or people who will remark on it it means so much to me it really does, and so thank you for giving us your time. Really, it means a lot, and we'll continue to grow.

Tayla: 38:48

I think we're probably going to start doing video. It's ambitious. I know it's ambitious, but I think that will be fun. So we have a lot of plans for growing next year. We haven't focused much on growth, but we will next year and we have a lot of fun ideas. We'll be in touch. Make sure to follow us on social media if you want to just be in the loop of all this stuff.

Sam: 39:11

Amen.

Tayla: 39:12

Have a safe and happy holiday season. Thanks for listening to the Babe. What do you know about podcast?

Sam: 39:22

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