Suits and Current Events

Get ready to journey through the captivating world of pop culture and politics. This episode springs from our exhilarating weekend trip to Vegas, watching P!nk's breathtaking performance. This sparks a discussion on her remarkable ability to stay relevant in the fast-paced music industry for over two decades. We then segue into a fascinating exploration of the TV series 'Suits' and its recent surge in popularity.

Prepare for a compelling discussion on the complex characters in 'Suits', their struggles with communication, and how these challenges mirror our own personal relationships. We also draw intriguing parallels between these conflicts and the riveting dynamics in the Star Wars universe. A sobering reflection on the corrupting influence of money is also on the docket, as we relate it to the questionable ethics of current politicians. As the political landscape is navigated, we delve into the strategic manipulation by Republicans following the recent attack by Hamas on Israel. We examine the murky pool of misinformation and backroom deals, offering thought-provoking insights on how these tactics echo in the world of 'Suits'.

As our journey continues, we dissect the evolution of the characters in 'Suits', the feminist and racial undertones the series explores, and the representation of lawyers. The final stop takes us to a fun debate on our top three TV series that have left us captivated and wanting more. Tune in for an episode that promises to entertain, inform, and challenge your perceptions on pop culture, politics, and everything in between.

Transcript

Sam: 0:10

Welcome to Babe. What do you know about the podcast with your favorite husband and wife duo, Sam?

Tayla: 0:16

and Tayla. Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.

Sam: 0:24

Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way.

Tayla: 0:33

Okay, so I am mostly just impressed that you even made it.

Sam: 0:37

Yeah, I had a lot of medication. So I had that THC rub on my neck. I took like a bunch of ibuprofen. I literally was like trying to do everything I could. I mean I had you drive more than half the way, which is very unusual for me on road trips. I love to drive.

Tayla: 0:54

Yeah, it was really fun though. Quick weekend to Vegas alone, just you and me, to see pink, the one and only yeah, and we had our kids stay with my mom. So it's I think it was our first solo trip since I was pregnant with Max like six months pregnant with Max, so it's been what a couple almost a couple years way too long. It was really fun. Minus, you know all the issues that you're having with your health.

Sam: 1:26

Yeah, I mean this could be the end, but we're going to power on through.

Tayla: 1:30

Yeah, it could be the end. We keep saying that. We're like do you have some sort of disease? We don't know, we have no idea what's wrong.

Sam: 1:36

I've gone to the doctor, we've done blood work, blood work came back. I'm fat, so big, big shockers. But other than that, yeah, we don't know what's wrong.

Tayla: 1:49

Yeah, I hope we figure it out soon. But the convenient thing, so we get into this huge allegiance stadium, football stadium.

Sam: 1:56

Yes.

Tayla: 1:57

And our seats are against like a wall, like a cement wall. We were kind of in right in the corner towards back, which was nice, and I just saw you like slumping against.

Sam: 2:07

I said the whole time, but it started with Brandy Carlisle.

Tayla: 2:13

Had you ever heard? No?

Sam: 2:14

so I've heard the name and you know, once she played a couple of her songs like, oh yeah, I've heard that song, I've heard that voice, but I didn't know really much about her at all, just you know at all. And then to hear her live, and when she's live. So a lot of times when you do like a performance like this, there's a lot of, like you know, pre-recorded stuff you know, but there were basically there. They didn't even have in ear monitors.

Sam: 2:39

So, basically even like live performers that are singing live typically will have in ear monitors so they can hear a click track or they can hear themselves because there's a delay in the sound from in the stadium or the area that you're performing.

Sam: 2:50

And so you have to even mention that, yeah, you got to compete against it and so but they, you know, since I mean they'd be performing live for like 25 years, so often bars, I'm guessing they just kind of got used to like feeling each other real close and singing harmonies and yeah, it was really impressive. It's kind of like pop, anthem, folksy country, like a mix of everything.

Tayla: 3:12

And Mary Connor is basically like it was really good.

Tayla: 3:15

Yeah, it was. It was really amazing. Like she. She was just so impressive, live, yeah, so impressive. And then freaking pink comes out. She's like doing bungee, jumping off the top of this, the stage, and she's doing like aerial acrobatics while she is singing. Yeah, if you saw it, I posted it on Instagram. I might post it again after this episode, but like she's literally flipping through the air upside down, around and around and singing and sounding really good, literally an icon. Such a good show can't say enough good things. Give her all your money and go see a show next time she goes on tour, like you do not want to miss it, yeah.

Sam: 3:55

Okay, and I'm going to say this from my perspective, because I'm not. I wasn't like, oh yeah, I'm so excited to go see pink. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm going to go have a night off with Tayla. That's like was the idea. And then seeing pink, and I've always I've heard pink since I've been in high school and I was like, yeah, she's a bit of an odd duck and a bit of a you know, you know, loves the attention, loves to be a rock star, whatever it is.

Sam: 4:18

And it's like okay, you know a couple of songs kind of hit the mark and then you don't really pay attention. And now, like 20 something years later, I see it in this giant stadium and I'm nothing but impressed, like it really like even for me, like that's not really my thing, jam, I was like she's flying around a giant football stadium, like this is, this is the biggest stadium I've ever been in, and she's flying across it like hundreds of meters, you know like a second miles per hour.

Tayla: 4:45

Yeah, it's crazy. It really was amazing, and I obviously do listen to her music and have like. Year after year after year she'll release more music and it's so hard to stay relevant in the music industry Like even after one song or one album. To do it for over two decades is so freaking impressive to stay both relevant but still kind of true to her style.

Sam: 5:09

Yeah.

Tayla: 5:10

Very cool. I just love her.

Sam: 5:12

Like you said, stamp of endorsement Boom.

Tayla: 5:15

Yeah, we, we ship. It Is that old now, that phrase. I think that's more for relationships.

Sam: 5:23

I have no idea.

Tayla: 5:25

Well, let's talk about our topic for the day, and as I'm saying this, I am realizing I didn't write out an introduction and so I will ad lip it. We are going to be talking about the very famous and more recently researched famous. This is not going well, but the show.

Sam: 5:49

I think it's great, thank you.

Tayla: 5:50

The show suits. So I think it started airing in. I think it stopped airing in 2016. If I remember right, and it's eight seasons, so it started airing around 2008. That sounds about right. It sounds about right.

Sam: 6:07

Like soon after the financial crisis, I believe.

Tayla: 6:08

Yeah, and it's recently seen a resurgence in views because I think it was just thrown onto Netflix and everyone's been watching it right now, including us. It's a show about a fraud a guy who has photographic memory very brilliant, has a riddled history with like using his gift for bad, helping people cheat on tests, et cetera, et cetera and he accidentally winds up in one of the top, in an office of one of the top New York lawyers corporate lawyers in the state of New York and ends up talking his way into getting hired, even though he's a fraud. And the rest of the show is kind of all about that.

Sam: 6:52

Yeah, and just so you know. If you plan on watching the show, there might be some spoilers in this there will be spoilers and so we'll do our best to kind of not give too many like all of them, but there's going to be spoilers, so make you know if you want spoilers.

Tayla: 7:06

This might not be your episode if you haven't watched it, and or I feel like you'll still get valuable stuff. We'll try to give enough context, if you haven't watched the show, as to like why we're talking about it. Because we want to talk about, obviously, the show and a bunch of cool stuff in it, but I think we're going to be talking about things we notice about the show or things that the show kind of demonstrates in society that we'll be commenting on. Commentating on whatever. Either way, if you want to watch it, spoiler alert for sure.

Sam: 7:37

Yeah.

Tayla: 7:38

And we actually haven't finished it.

Sam: 7:40

We're so close.

Tayla: 7:40

We're really close. We're in the last season, but I think we have enough going for us that we can still comment on it pretty well. So to start favorite things about the show, what do you enjoy it?

Sam: 7:53

You got to say the phrase.

Tayla: 7:55

Oh, babe, what do you know about suits? Oh my gosh, goodness, a mess. Okay, well, I will not be repeating this in the future, but yes, babe, what do you know about suits?

Sam: 8:04

Well, a lot, because I've watched the show like most nights. That's like literally one of our things we do for routines, like if there's nothing else going on, because usually you know most of the week we've got scheduled out or something, but if there's not, it's like, all right, sit down.

Tayla: 8:17

Chill, chill.

Sam: 8:18

Pull out the phone. Watch suits.

Tayla: 8:20

I don't, but I can't, I can't multitask really. My eyes are massive because I sometimes do, but I honestly mostly watch the whole time You're like on Reddit or playing. What is that game you play now?

Sam: 8:31

Clash Royale Clash.

Tayla: 8:33

Royale. So what do you like about the?

Sam: 8:35

show. So what I like about it, I mean okay. So at this point I feel like and this is what most people told us and told me about the show before watching it was All right if you made it through the first four or five seasons. You don't really need to see the rest, because they kind of rinse the leather to repeat the dynamics after that point, which is true.

Tayla: 8:56

Until season six.

Sam: 9:00

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's yeah, um, yeah. So what I like about the show is I really like the just a courtroom drama right, where it's just you know they're presented a problem, it's surrounded by some sort of legalese and they get creative around trying to be like how do we get around this issue of this, this, this and this right? And then all of a sudden they come up with a plan and they resolve it. I love that. So, because in my day to day life I really like problem solving, just complex issues, and then, hey, cool, we figured out it's an alternative way that wasn't thought of before. So I love that, I love that sort of thing from it.

Sam: 9:42

Really good acting.

Tayla: 9:43

Yeah, I would agree.

Sam: 9:44

They had a really good developing story over you know a number of seasons and so you kind of invested, season after season after season, in like their personal lives, not just in the actual problems they are solving.

Tayla: 9:58

Yeah, how about you? Something I really like is that the characters are really complicated and nuanced. They're not very obviously the good person or the bad person, or a lovable person or an unlovable person. They're all a big mix of both, all of them, every single character which I really like. I like it when the character is not so obvious. They're a lot more human. They kind of get into maybe like some extremes as the seasons go on, but either way, I really like complicated characters. So, for example, my favorite character is Lewis Lit.

Tayla: 10:33

That's my favorite character in the whole thing, but also my favorite character in the Star Wars universe verse is probably Kylo Ren. So that's just kind of my thing of like people that you can tell are very torn between being a good person and being not a good person.

Sam: 10:49

Is that because that's how you feel?

Tayla: 10:53

I want to consider that honestly and maybe Maybe.

Sam: 10:59

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's. It is pretty interesting to see how complicated they are, and I mean complicated Maybe. I feel like every character is kind of bad in some way.

Tayla: 11:11

Yeah, absolutely.

Sam: 11:12

And so, in fact, that's actually one of the things that frustrates me about about the show is that on the flip side, right, because it feels like everyone has really poor communication skills.

Tayla: 11:23

Oh my gosh, we talk about this all the time.

Sam: 11:25

And literally like, because they'll, you know, someone has a problem or someone did something wrong or someone you know needs to do something different than the plan, and instead of it, you know, just come in and have a conversation. It's like they really jump into, like yelling at each other and you're just like, well, wait, what? Why is he just yelling at this person right now?

Tayla: 11:42

And then just hang up or leave the room, like clearly before the conversation is over.

Sam: 11:46

Yeah, so that's so. That's one of the things that bothers me is just that you know, I have a big. I have a big struggle in my personal relationships. When there's conflicts Like I definitely am all about, like hey, what is the best way to have this like conversation without escalating to anything more than just a conversation? I shy away from conflict. I'm not a big fan of it. So when it gets to that point in the show, I just start getting like a lot of anxiety.

Tayla: 12:20

Yeah, and I think I would feel that way at the beginning too. And now I'm just like bro, I get like annoyed now, not anxious. I'm just like you could have just said this sentence in this way Like you're a lawyer, you're designed to, like you're supposed to know how to have people listen to you, and they seem to do so well in the courtroom when it comes to like playing with a jury and getting a judge to agree with them and to blah, blah, blah. But for some reason they're just like kind of socially inept when it comes to their interpersonal like. If they're really that good at convincing people of their argument, they should be using that with each other, and they're not doing it effectively at all, which is frustrating.

Sam: 13:02

Yeah, I think one of my favorites kind of themes of the show is how that you know that character that you're talking about. I guess I'll just name a micross.

Tayla: 13:12

Yes, that's the fraud guy the fraud guy.

Sam: 13:14

Yeah, is that he is continuously trying. The reason he wants to be a lawyer is that he wants to actually help people. You know he comes from a lot of trauma himself and so he sees that this is a way to help others not go through the same trauma that he's been through. So he tries to do a lot of pro bono work. He tries to, you know, help out foundations and stuff, and that ends up being a lot of conflict of interest with the law firm.

Tayla: 13:41

Because of money, yeah.

Sam: 13:42

Because of money, and before the show you were talking about how that was like. One of the things that you see in the parallels with our current political situation was just like the how much corruption there is on that level, with money and with you know.

Tayla: 14:03

Yeah, I mean I think you see politicians get sucked into this as well.

Tayla: 14:08

I do believe a lot of local level politicians get into politics very well intentioned, some of them not so much, but I think I would say the majority of them do come in well intentioned, wanting to help people, wanting to like, represent each individual, make sure everyone feels heard and represented.

Tayla: 14:26

But the moment you start introducing the money that's in government, the money that's in politics, and you get more and more of it and the people at your level have already been corrupted by how much money there is. It just it changes people, not always, but most of the time it is. And you see that in the show with Mike Ross is that, even though, like his core, even if he's not personally motivated by a lot of money after season two or three, the fact that money is in play not just for him but for all the people around him and on his team and like that does affect his ability to make decisions. And I think politicians struggle with the same thing. Even if they are not really looking for a ton of money or whatever, they're affected by people very protective of their money and very motivated by money, and I think it just causes a lot of problems that way.

Sam: 15:18

Yeah, even right now. So we're recording this. It's October 9th, yeah.

Tayla: 15:23

Yes.

Sam: 15:24

Yes, and so just a couple of days ago there was an attack by Hamas on Israel and it's devastating and awful and terrible, and I was just seeing in the news how the Republicans are using this as a way to gain political power or gain political votes by attacking the Democrats on how they're supporting or what they think the Democrats should be doing and how they should be spending money on on Israel.

Tayla: 16:05

So can you give me a couple examples of what you're seeing or how you're seeing this?

Sam: 16:09

Yeah, I've actually got it up on my phone from earlier. Let me read a couple of these it's, it's, yeah, it's pretty interesting, so all right. So here's one of them. Gop members of Congress and White House hopefuls are like Torrent President Joe Biden. This is from ABC News. For past criticism of Israel over settlement expansion, so a controversial judicial overhaul planned by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Did I say that right?

Tayla: 16:38

Netanyahu.

Sam: 16:39

Yeah, so it sounds so funny when I say it slow On top of a recent unfreezing of six billion in Iranian assets as part of the deal to free American detainees. I don't remember, if you remember.

Tayla: 16:51

Oh, absolutely.

Sam: 16:52

Yeah. And then Donald Trump says I can't imagine how anybody who's Jewish or anybody who loves Israel and, frankly, the evangelicals just love Israel Dash dash. I can't imagine anybody voting Democrat, let alone for this man. So that was Donald Trump.

Tayla: 17:08

Wait. So, if I'm understanding right, there's criticism saying hey, biden, in order to get these American prisoners back, you gave Iran six. Well, you unfroze six billion dollars of Iranian money, and the claim is that they've used this money to prop up this attack.

Sam: 17:27

Yeah, so this, this, and that's the criticism. Yeah, that's one of the criticisms, so which I don't know.

Tayla: 17:33

if you know much about I mean yeah, go on.

Tayla: 17:36

That's, that's untrue. Yeah, and the money that was unfrozen has been unspent. So it's not that Iran hasn't used money and hasn't financially and and logistically backed this attack. Absolutely they have and absolutely that's wrong and insidious. But it was not this exchange of money that made this attack happen. So I have to say that I get frustrated when people kind of spread disinformation or use disinformation to make an argument. When there it's especially frustrating to me when there is enough argument to be had without the misinformation. Absolutely you can criticize, maybe even Democrats, post, post actions or post words. You know, when it comes to Israel, you could criticize Biden's act or you can criticize Iran itself for for doing this you don't need misinformation about how many was spent in our relationship with it to do that.

Sam: 18:41

Yeah, yeah so. So there's a number of them, but I mean you kind of get the idea and so it's a tie this back to suits, right, because I'm ADHD brain here. So it's tie this back to suits. One of the things I just kind of had like a light bulb go off was there's a recurring theme in the show with basically this one lawyer basically almost never goes to court. He always tries to settle and it's one of the main lawyers, yeah, and this is how he mainly wins. So he, you know, you create all these threats, create all these like big, like things are bad, are going to happen to you if we go to court and we, you know, actually go to a jury, blah, blah, blah. So let's settle.

Sam: 19:17

And so I feel like so much of politics is probably like that, where it's just like, you know there's there's so much back room deal, you know, deals that are being made like, hey, if you do this, we do this, you do this, and then what we're seeing is just the, you know the, the public facing. You know we're going to say this from the you know the Republican side. We're going to say all these extreme things and get our base all riled up and you know. Then they go. You know back room deals with Democrats say look, look, look, how much public support we have to do X, y and Z. We want X, y and Z, and so they're doing all sorts of settlement deals instead of actually going through. In quote unquote trying this in court.

Tayla: 19:58

Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is interesting and it's an interesting tie in of using like social, with politicians specifically using almost social evidence or sway to essentially try to settle or try to figure out their, their conflicts. And I find it so interesting that how do I put this? So the interesting thing about this specific case is that most people on the internet arguing about this are arguing with bots.

Tayla: 20:32

Yeah, they're arguing with Russian bots and and Russia itself is using that social capital, or perceived or literally manufactured social capital, to try and further its own interest as well.

Tayla: 20:45

Literally, it's in Russia's interest to distract from the war with Ukraine with this and it's absolutely working. And I just, I get, I get frustrated. And that absolutely happens in the show too, where they it's, it's it's very much tricks, intimidation, like how can you make it as believable as possible even if you have nothing? It's essentially gambling, right, and this mutual assured destruction thing we see a lot of people rely on this for shady stuff. It's in the show, mutually assured destruction oh, jessica Pearson, she's like the main the managing partner of the firm finds out about Ross, my cross being a fraud, and then she they essentially use mutual assured destruction on each other, saying, oh, you can't turn me in because, like they're going to believe that you didn't know, and then he can't not listen to her because she's not turning him in, and blah, blah, blah. But I find this happens for sure all the time in in social issues, and Tim Ballard, I think, is even an example of attempting to use mutual assured destruction to manipulate people and abuse them.

Sam: 21:55

I just saw the craziest. I'm gonna get close to Mike. I just saw the craziest thing earlier today on my phone. So apparently the the latest on Tim Ballard is that they've filed the women have filed a lawsuit against Tim Ballard against underground railroad and one of the excerpts from the filing I've read is basically apparently they're saying that Tim about one of the things, that one of the things that he did was that he would go get ketamine treatments he would essentially he would drug himself yeah, drug himself and then bring in a scrub and he would have quote, unquote visions or conversations with one of these Book of Mormon prophets, you know, and some of the things that he said, that this prophet said in this ketamine vision was that Tim Ballard would be a senator than the US president and also the prophet of the church.

Sam: 22:54

And, you know, basically lead us to the, you know, second coming wow yeah wow yeah that's a whole wow, I mean.

Tayla: 23:05

And so much of this stuff is gonna come out. It's just bizarre behavior. But kind of to the mutual assured destruction point, we saw in the blaze news article, which was just fascinating, that Tim Ballard would manipulate women into doing sexual acts with him under the guys of we spoken about this, doing whatever it takes for the children, and then would then use that manipulation as an attempt at mutually assured destruction and would say things like oh, you know, we've got so much crap on each other like we can't tell anyone or don't tell your husband or whatever. So obviously that failed because those women are realizing, no, this isn't mutually assured destruction, like you abused, manipulated, groomed me, and obviously everyone can make better decisions. But they're realizing that and that's why he's in that position. He's in.

Sam: 24:06

Oh the irony he sexually trafficked women because he took him places.

Tayla: 24:11

He did, he would literally crossboard his. With whom? With the the. We're gonna do a whole another episode on this. We do Because there's like the.

Sam: 24:18

I was like I'm reading some of these experts excerpts from the little series and you're just like, wow, this is even more bizarre than you would think.

Tayla: 24:26

Yeah, and, and everyone that knows anything about it is just like oh, just you wait.

Sam: 24:32

It's fascinating. So back to suits.

Tayla: 24:35

Of course, and that's going to be the whole episode.

Sam: 24:38

I feel like, okay, so again, we love the show. It's amazing great courtroom drama and it's very actually less courtroom and more like office drama because it's you know, they solve most things you know without going to court.

Tayla: 24:50

Which is law? I mean you, you really aren't. As a lawyer, you spend so little time in court compared to time researching and doing meetings and blah, blah blah.

Sam: 24:59

So you want to be a lawyer? What? What does that? The kind of lawyer you wanted to be? No one to be like use, you know an option.

Tayla: 25:07

So I definitely. It's complicated. So I've always wanted to go to law school and I'm always known I would love law school and hate being a lawyer just for the the the reason of just excessive paperwork, ridiculous hours to kind of get ahead. So I still plan to go to law school. I would love a jurist doctorate degree and I know that I can be useful. I can use that in so many ways, maybe in the capacity of a lawyer. But if I were ever going to actually be a lawyer with the degree, it would be criminal law, just because that is more court time. That is what I would enjoy about the law more, I think. Or human rights law, when it comes to helping draft um consults on different, different laws to protect human rights that are actually effective and work with the laws of countries around the world.

Sam: 26:01

So that's what I would do. Interesting Wiz, are there any characters on the show that you like more identify with because of?

Tayla: 26:07

that, oh, not real Well. Jessica Pearson towards the end. So, right as she kind of and again, this is your spoiler alert, here's your warning but she eventually leaves the firm, realizes that all the cutthroatness and the amazing things that made her a great corporate lawyer is not why she got into law in the first place, she decides to move away and to start taking not just pro bono cases but cases kind of like that that are designed to hit at social issues etc. So I think that switch I resonate more with my cross, some elements of my cross, and Megan Markle's Rachel Zane, and that character is just just very focused on the effect on people, that of what they're doing.

Sam: 26:59

So yeah, a little bit more. That. That's interesting. So you brought up Rachel. This is another character in the show. It is. She's the daughter of another high famous lawyer whatever in the show and not in a different law firm, and she's a paralegal. She starts dating my cross. One of the things I hated about the show was their relationship was totally dysfunctional totally dysfunctional, super toxic, but eventually that stops happening, that whole like toxic relationship, just all of a sudden, like one season later.

Tayla: 27:30

it's also just fun, hunky dory yeah they're a great, actual, sustainable, supportive couple Like actually that's how they end up. But wow, does it take many seasons and who knows what to get to that point, literally just picking fights, arguing for no reason, gaslighting infidelity.

Sam: 27:52

It's, it's awful, I like it's actually one of like, because you were telling me like how everyone back in the day was like she's like the hottest girl on TV, or blah, blah, blah blah, beautiful, and then we're watching the show and I was like I just found her annoying, Like I literally could character yeah like I was just looking at her as like how can anyone find a person like that attractive on any level? Like that's just gross.

Tayla: 28:16

Yeah, that I would say. Rachel Zane the first two, three, four seasons is really like an insecure, whiny argumentative for no reason will literally like entrap someone into a position and then criticize them for doing what she's exactly and trap them to do. But I will say I think her character develops really really nicely as she becomes a lawyer, she becomes really grounding, she becomes really logical, not as emotional. I really like the development and I think Meghan Markle did a good job.

Tayla: 28:52

I agree, she did the character a lot of justice and especially considering all that she was dealing with in her last season on the show, I feel like that's that's well. She did well because she she had some other very social.

Tayla: 29:06

It wasn't just that she was dating someone famous, it's that the expectations on a royal public figure are crazy but that was an interesting character to watch and I will say again, the character development throughout the seasons is something I enjoy greatly and more realistic of people like people really do change year to year to year. Like meeting up with people from high school is wild that you haven't seen in a while. They're still very much themselves, but they really do change and grow so much. I feel like I have changed so much since high school, so I'm cool to see that development in characters.

Sam: 29:41

One of the things I think the show does really well and I'm just trying to think of it's because of the timeframe or just how it was done I really feel like they do a pretty good job of dealing with feminist feminism issues. They deal with race issues really well. Like they don't go too far left, they don't go too far right, they kind of tiptoe through it, but at the same time, they don't, it's clear.

Sam: 30:07

Yeah, they also don't ignore it, if that makes sense, because that's also one of the things that you don't want to do. You don't have to completely ignore it, but like these things don't exist, but at the same time, they allow characters to be say something sexist or do something sexist, or say and do something racist. But it's on a very small, minor level and it's like oh okay, well, let's go through an arc of like oh well, I'm sorry and I didn't mean that, and there's growth in each one of those areas, so I actually really liked it.

Sam: 30:36

It didn't become like this, like the end of a character because of something they did, in that sort of a way.

Tayla: 30:43

Yeah, and I will say the representation of the women in the show I really, really love, because every single woman on the show is interesting, is has a huge effect on the story, like even Gretchen, which is like an older black woman that's a secretary. That kind of just, just kind of come, becomes a part of the show the last few seasons.

Tayla: 31:03

And like every single woman has a high impact and they are high, highly impactful people in their own ways. It's not the exact same. Like I'm a strong feminist woman and I don't care what anyone thinks like Jessica Pearson, they're literally more feminine, less feminine, more emotional, less emotional, like every single one is so different, but all really representative of, like, strong and complicated and impactful women which I really like.

Sam: 31:30

Yes, I like that because they're not just the focus of being a romantic interest, but even though they are at times, but then it just like normal human people.

Tayla: 31:39

You're a romantic, well, you're a. It's something you're interested in. That's a good thing to be a romantic interest.

Sam: 31:44

But and there's particularly a couple female characters that actually you know don't have any actual romantic interests in the show. They're just, you know, they're being kind of like you could replace them with a man that currently has no romantic interest. It's great.

Tayla: 31:59

Yeah, it's almost a role reversal. They're just treated like main characters, which they are, and they're not treated very differently than the men as main characters, which is very cool.

Sam: 32:09

Because I also sometimes get a little cringey when it's like overdone, where it's like. I'm a strong, independent woman and the show is like just so, like trying to be over over the top about how this is such a strong woman and she doesn't need a man, and none of the characters are like that. It's like like a normal human.

Tayla: 32:26

Which that is true of. It would be true of, yeah absolutely yeah, so I loved it.

Sam: 32:31

They did such a good job, kind of being accepting, I think so maybe that's why it ended up being such a popular show, because it didn't matter if you're Right-leaning or left-leaning, or independence, it just didn't feel like you're being ostracized. You know, for it wasn't, too, anything, yeah.

Tayla: 32:45

I think the one main criticism that they do have is of people with too much money that then Dehumanize the power. So like what is that guy's name? There's like a billionaire, that's oh, Terrible guy so they do a good job like demonizing people that only care about money, but a good job humanizing people that also care about money, if that makes sense.

Sam: 33:09

Yeah, you found out. They in the trend that some of the characters are way more wealthy than you realize and you're like, oh, that's interesting. And again, like you said, like some people that have a lot of money, you're terrible and some people that have a lot of money or not.

Tayla: 33:23

Yeah, yeah. Just I would say you're right, representation being far-reaching is a huge one on the show. One other thing and this is not an aspect I just popped into my head right now, but they they have an interesting aspect of mental health and mental health care in the show. What are your thoughts on that?

Sam: 33:44

Yeah, they actually have multiple therapists show up onto the, you know, show up in the in the. In the series One comes a lot of interest. But you know, whatever Spoilers, you don't have to worry about that.

Tayla: 33:59

Fortunately that was more ethically done then.

Sam: 34:02

Yeah, but I really went to, I think, about the complexity of characters. Right, it kind of dives into why they are the way they are. A number of the characters you know they had this sort of a childhood and it comes out in therapy and then you have some of them. There's couple therapy and so it's. It really does a good job of being okay with you know, going to therapy.

Tayla: 34:24

Yeah, it normalizes it, but it also, like, shows high impact. The high impact of therapy, yeah, watching people Try and fail and try and succeed at implementing the guidance they're given by their mental health care professional, and I think that's healthy, because when we have mental health care professionals, like that is a totally something that happens. You try something and fail, or you don't try it the way that the therapist meant it and you know it or you don't know it. Like there's just so many combinations of things, and I really like I would say the second therapist we see, the female therapist, was like really amazing, but almost too amazing where it's like would this really happen in it in a session or a therapy relationship?

Tayla: 35:07

The second one, the one between dr Lipschitz and Lewis lit, I would say, is a more realistic, just just like a really even killed, well-intentioned, grounding Patient therapists like kind of the ideal of what you would hope a therapist would be. But I just like to see the impact that that can happen. I feel like that therapist is like a little more emotional or in touch with emotions, and I don't see a lot of male therapists represented that way in TV. To be honest, yeah, it's more the women Therapists that have that impact.

Sam: 35:45

Yeah, I love that. I also had a problem with, though, with how much they and obviously because it's the point of the show glamorized and put on a pedestal lawyers in general, like they really made them seem like so ridiculously smart and they had like 40 hours a day in their abilities to be able to get things done and they could read, read Giant novels are talking to say two seconds and you know.

Sam: 36:13

So a lot of that is like you know, obviously like lawyer porn. But but so you know, you just got to take that with a grain of salt, like, yes, there, that's the point of the show. They're really trying to like glamorize this sort of a profession and lifestyle and blah, blah, blah. But it's not as accurate. As you know, a lot of lawyers live their lives. It's a lot more sitting and reading.

Tayla: 36:36

Yeah, and I'll say most characters like don't really have Sustainable Relationships outside of that office.

Tayla: 36:45

Yeah only real sustainable, like close family relationship, you see, is between my cross and Rachel Zane and they work there together. That's the only way it works. But pretty much every other person is single or is in a Relationship that like doesn't last that long or isn't really that tight of a relationship, and I do think that that is something lawyers in New York probably do and elsewhere probably do struggle with, but it doesn't do a good enough job at like, I think, showing the cost that that that's a result of doing too much or prioritizing this too much. Like you, you can't really have a relationship with someone that is that crazy about their work and expected to be very well, unless you're wanting a more arms-length relationship.

Sam: 37:30

So, overall, would you consider this like one of your top 10 series We've watched, like what would you? Okay, what would be your top three TV series that we've watched? Anything you can think of, anything you can think of oh, that's hard, that's really hard. I'll start off with one breaking bad.

Tayla: 37:45

Yes, very good, very good, amazing. I don't know if that would be my top three, but it's up there. Yeah, things okay shows that I really so funnily enough avatar the Lost Airbender that was super good.

Sam: 37:59

We were reminded of that the other day. That was so good, so good.

Tayla: 38:05

The other. What Mandalorian I think is up there. I really enjoy it.

Sam: 38:09

I'm gonna push back on that, for you know I'm not pushback but my opinion on a bit boring that that to me it's like it's really well done. Really well done, great like atmosphere, but it's just boring.

Tayla: 38:20

It is a bit slow so maybe I wouldn't put in my top three, but it is a show I really enjoy. Man what shows?

Sam: 38:28

Dexter.

Tayla: 38:29

Dexter, definitely top three. A hundred percent, that's it. I was like, what is it? There's one that's calling to me game of thrones.

Sam: 38:38

Game of thrones is really good, except the last season. I know well even it's not even the last season.

Tayla: 38:43

It's the last half of the last season.

Sam: 38:47

That was disappointing oh.

Tayla: 38:50

I can't dwell on it. It's just too sad that one is is up there. I Enjoy the walking dead I. It can get tedious and then there's so many seasons that you kind of need to take a break.

Sam: 39:01

But I really do love, I really liked the first couple seasons like oh, phenomenal TV, and then yeah, kind of for me I lost interest, kind of got yeah me, yeah. Also like I feel like the they had a lot of changes to their like Rules of the that world. So yeah it was also a bit distracting.

Tayla: 39:20

Yeah, it can be, I still love it. I just love it. I have a so much walking dead stuff from high school.

Sam: 39:27

Yeah, that's when I started watching it for me, this feels like like a step or two above something like criminal minds. We're just like oh, this is a fun show to watch and you know he's put on criminal minds and then you kind of forget that the show even exists. Yeah, I don't know of the storyline, but this has like a full, like complete.

Tayla: 39:45

Yeah, yeah, I would say it's like top, like top 50%, like not in the top quarter of shows been the top half of shows.

Sam: 39:56

Yeah.

Tayla: 39:56

I would say, and maybe more towards like that, 75%, but I think for all the reasons that we spoke about. But One other thing I wanted to bring up Regarding the show and but current current events, and is the, the, the deadlock that we're seeing in Politics, essentially like stuff with the house. You know what's his face.

Sam: 40:26

McCarthy.

Tayla: 40:28

No, not even that. That's the whole thing. But um, what's his face? From New York that lied about everything and Lied about his credentials and he essentially ran on Um lice and he won his seat in the house based on lice. Like his background, everything fake, right. And um he that was found out shortly after him being sworn in and he has refused to resign and the the the house refuses to oust him. Why? Because the Republicans have such a low margin of majority in the house that this is a perfect example of party over principle. Yeah, that like do we really want this? Like we want this to be okay? That we will accept someone who literally lied to voters and got their votes based on falsehoods and is now being charged for it literally as a criminal?

Tayla: 41:27

like a criminal charge and his like I think his chief of staff is going to jail already and she's cut a deal and everything. That's who we're okay accepting in Congress, just so that you can maintain your power. No, and that's I get frustrated with. With that, where I'm just like what is more important and I get, I think for most American people, we think no, absolutely that's not something we accept and we don't want to accept. And but the politicians, they get stuck in a deadlock, they get stuck in their same abusive cycle with each other because things are so extreme and you see that character and character and character again in suits, just the same abusive cycles, even if there's, you know, some sort of working relationship, like it just kind of falls into that and it's frustrating to watch because you're just like no, like that's not the priority, that's not, that's not your actual principles. Why are you going down this war more? Why are you making a decision that is so obviously against what you value?

Sam: 42:26

Yeah, yeah, I think that's why I like the show. It reminds me of just, you know, social issues that we've got now We've got political issues that are relatable. Yeah, I just really like the show that. I'd give it a 4.2 out of five.

Tayla: 42:43

That's very specific, very, very specific. Yeah, I think, a lot to learn. We're going to finish it, so I guess we'll probably update you on our thoughts on how it ends. It's definitely feeling like it's going to wrap up Like it's you know what I mean Feels wrapy up-y, but don't quote me on that. But essentially we recommend it. We think everyone should go watch it. It's on Netflix right now, at least in the US, for our US bass listeners.

Sam: 43:08

I don't know if it's everywhere, but that's why you've got to get a VPN Head over to NordVPN.

Tayla: 43:18

Use code Hashtag add yeah, Use code Babe. What do you know about? Don't we don't have any tips, don't Not sponsored. Thanks for listening to the Babe. What do you know about podcast?

Sam: 43:34

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