Inter-Faith Relationships Pt 2.

In this episode, Sam and Tayla continue their conversation about navigating mixed-faith relationships, and progress more into the practical challenges that can arise and how to work through them together. 

Transcript

Tayla (00:10):

Welcome to the Babe, What do you know about podcast?

Sam (00:13):

Where your hosts husband and duo, Sam and

Tayla (00:17):

Tayla

Sam (00:17):

Air their grievances publicly for your entertainment. So I have to really focus and pay attention to what I'm doing right now that's very specific about how I interact in this trade. Could make or break my next couple weeks.

Tayla (00:34):

I've been sitting here for 10 minutes though. How long does a trade take?

Sam (00:39):

It could take, I mean some of these trades take days if not weeks. There's a lot of angles and levels to

Tayla (00:46):

This. I know, but that's the thing is this is your second year doing fantasy possible. And I'm happy for you that you have it.

Sam (00:51):

I'm happy. I'm happy for me too.

Tayla (00:53):

But I do feel like it's a second job for you <laugh>. Every time we're hanging out in the evening, it seems like you're working but you take it really seriously. So

Sam (01:02):

I do take it very seriously And there's a lot of analytics that go into, excuse me, I've got a little juice box here.

Tayla (01:09):

Yeah,

Sam (01:10):

I've got a

Tayla (01:11):

Littles juice box.

Sam (01:13):

It's honest kids. It's basically just watered down juice. It's such freaking scam

Tayla (01:21):

<laugh>. Speaking of which though Sam and I both have sippy things because we're both unwell. I have, oh, I had toilet paper right by me cuz I don't have tissues anymore.

Sam (01:34):

Oh yeah. So what Don't need toilet paper.

Tayla (01:39):

We're out <laugh> or out of tissues. So I was hoping to not sniff

Sam (01:45):

Stuff for our American listeners. Kleenex is what she's referring to.

Tayla (01:51):

Do they? Americans know what a tissue is,

Sam (01:53):

You would think. But I think a tissue can sometimes be a generic overall material not used for blowing your nose.

Tayla (01:59):

Oh, I just don't think I knew that, but

Sam (02:02):

I know, right.

Tayla (02:04):

But we were just on the man last time. We recorded <affirmative> after weeks of hell and then we're getting ready to go to your family for Thanksgiving. Cuz we go to your family every year for Thanksgiving because

Sam (02:17):

It, we also celebrate our immigration to the United States because we moved out on Thanksgiving.

Tayla (02:24):

You arrived in the States on Thanksgiving pretty

Sam (02:27):

Much? No, no, we left South Africa.

Tayla (02:28):

Oh, you left? Yeah. Okay. And then, and you were grateful to be here. Yeah, so we were all, I cooked all day. Sammy even got to go play around of golf. He was grateful for that.

Sam (02:39):

I was so grateful and I played so well and then I hurt my

Tayla (02:42):

Back. And then you hurt your back And I had just the best day with the kids sometimes it's not the best day with the kids and it was the best day with the kids and I cooked and I made all these desserts and everything ready to go. Your mom's so excited. And then the text group with your family was just like, one family's like, oh we can't come, we're sick. And the next family's like, well two of us are sick. And then your mom's like, I'm throwing up. And so we are gonna be doing a Thanksgiving celebration with your family Another time.

Sam (03:10):

<laugh> another

Tayla (03:10):

Time. Maybe next weekend or something when everyone's better. And then we ended up getting sick. Yeah.

Sam (03:15):

The next day. No idea how cuz we are not seeing anyone. So

Tayla (03:20):

Yeah, we just saw a couple, we ended up going to my grandma and my uncle for Thanksgiving. But there was five people there.

Sam (03:28):

Yeah, well and also we got sick like that night.

Tayla (03:29):

So yeah. It's something

Sam (03:31):

Who knows? I

Tayla (03:32):

Don't know. But I might sneeze. I try. Pause the recording if that happens cuz No, just bleep it out. Just bleep it out. I should just bleep it out. But yeah, it's been, I'm sure everyone is experiencing that. It's just the illness this year, the trifecta of disease is just killing us. Literally. Some people unfortunately.

Sam (03:57):

I know it's terrible.

Tayla (04:00):

Yeah. So we put this next episode out to a vote. I think we actually had a different plan. We were gonna record an episode on feminism but the people have spoken and they wanted part two of interfaith relationships first and then we'll

Sam (04:14):

Do how exciting. Feminism, I have done zero preparation for this. So it's gonna all come from

Tayla (04:18):

The heart. I was gonna say, I mean what is different about that? Wow, what is different? <laugh>. But I'm gonna give you a little intro cuz I didn't do this last time. I've started doing intros. So I'm gonna give you some stats and then we can start. Okay. Okay. Are you doing a trade right now?

Sam (04:38):

<laugh>? Like

Tayla (04:39):

He's texting someone. Yeah, literally.

Sam (04:41):

I'm about the, I'm telling you, hold on one minute. I need a break for an hour and then I can come back to this discussion.

Tayla (04:48):

Good

Sam (04:49):

<laugh>.

Tayla (04:50):

All right, here's my intro. Since you weren't listening a second ago, I was listening over 50 years, the likelihood of marry someone over the past 50 years, the likelihood of marrying someone who shares your religious affiliation has dropped substantially. So interfaith relationships has increased. So according to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center, 27% of millennials were actually raised by parents with two different religious backgrounds, which is a huge, it doesn't sound like that much, but it's a big increase from only 20% of Gen Xs and 19% of baby boomers. And then today 25% of US marriages involve couples of different religions and 15% of marriages specifically involve a partner who one is religious and one is unaffiliated like atheist or agnostic. Whereas the other 10% of mixed is

Sam (05:42):

Interesting.

Tayla (05:43):

Both Christian, but different kinds of Christian or whatever. So interestingly, most children of interfaith couples report that their parents not arguing much about religion. So that's kind of cool. It's just not really an element that children are seeing. But anyway, with this background knowing that we are in a mixed faith relationship. Babe, what do you know about mixed faith relationships? I feel like I said mixed faith relationships like 20 times.

Sam (06:07):

Yeah, it just rolls off the tongue.

Tayla (06:10):

Does it? <laugh>? No, I have to really think about what I'm saying. <laugh>. So we spoke a little bit about, I was trying to think what should we talk about this time round because I feel like we covered quite a lot in our last episode. Yeah, check it out. I think it's episode two, I'm pretty sure. But I realized that we kind of covered it more broadly and we didn't really get into the nitty gritty of the struggles or the things that might be harder or more complicated to work out in an interfaith relationship. There's a sniff, sorry. So that's what I wanna talk about. Interesting. And to start it off, this isn't really a difficult nitty gritty question, but I was curious because you've been in two mixed faith marriages, specifically maybe more relationships, but two mixed faith marriages. And we spoke a bit about that last time, but I was curious if you learned anything different from each between the two about being in a mixed faith marriage

Sam (07:14):

So yes, that's a short answer but to go along further, I think what part of the, and I guess of being married before and going through a divorce is you learn a lot during that divorce and that first marriage that you get to apply to your second marriage.

Tayla (07:39):

Did you still hear it?

Sam (07:40):

Hear What?

Tayla (07:41):

my sniff, no,

Sam (07:42):

I didn't even, not even close all the way around. I didn't know what you're doing. So I kind of was distracted.

Tayla (07:46):

I lean down so I could sniff not into the mic, but I didn't know if it picked it up anyway, sorry, go.

Sam (07:52):

So one of the big things I learned and have applied, and I I'd love your feedback on this, what is <laugh>? Yeah. I haven't pushed my religious beliefs and thoughts onto you even and been very intentional in giving you space to believe and practice your faith, how you best see fits. So even though I see it very differently been given you that space, because at the end of the day I realize it wasn't as important to me that we were on the exact same page in terms of religious beliefs because I feel like that is secondary to values it, integrity and honesty and things like that.

Tayla (08:46):

So is that different from your first marriage?

Sam (08:50):

Yeah, in some ways I tried to give space to that, but I think there was not just in religious ways but in political opinions, I was a lot more, I don't know if the words confrontational or assertive,

Tayla (09:10):

Assertive,

Sam (09:11):

Assertive in my political views in that relationship. And I make sure Noel, here's why I feel like you should believe differently in your political ways

Tayla (09:20):

So it wasn't just you telling her what you thought it was also with the intention that she should also,

Sam (09:27):

Yeah, you should feel the same way I do politically because so obviously you're so wrong about this but I mean I wouldn't communicate but But that's the thoughts behind it. So there was a lot more of that. And so I'm sure that you've also noticed it in our relationship with politic politics is that I don't try convince you to think otherwise and

Tayla (09:49):

Very, very subtly if you do

Sam (09:53):

So it's not about trying to make you change but rather just trying to find a good space to maybe just express a political opinion.

Tayla (10:01):

And I would say

Sam (10:04):

In fact this podcast is probably the most I've ever tried

Tayla (10:07):

That we've

Sam (10:07):

Really, yeah, and I've tried to make you see something differently. It's actually through this podcast

Tayla (10:11):

And it's not even to see it the way you see it, it's just for me to see it differently necessarily. So yeah, I feel like even in our own relationship that how forceful I am or assertive or whatever you wanna call it, I have been about my beliefs or politics or whatever, has also adjusted quite a lot to give that same space just as I and the relationship have matured.

Sam (10:36):

Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree that that is true. And especially that's a big deal coming from someone that was a lady missionary and a lady MTC trainer <laugh>

Tayla (10:47):

Literally for, I worked there for so long I would get, well get to this in a second, but the questions and all that. Yeah. But okay, that was really interesting. Any other kind of thoughts on that, on different things you learned from each relationship about navigating?

Sam (11:06):

Yeah, so I think I came into this relationship with a lot more respect for someone that would believe differently. Yeah. So I still had respect for you as a person, no matter how deeply religiously different we were on a different page.

Tayla (11:26):

Do you think that's due to just maturity or experience or what do you

Sam (11:32):

Think? Maturity through experience.

Tayla (11:34):

Ah-huh Nice. Okay cool. So my next question or it's not a question, I actually don't have just questions, I have topics. But the next one I wanna talk about, which is a little more nitty gritty and it'll be interesting to see where this goes, but it's how to navigate boundaries in an interfaith relationship. And the specifics that I think can be complicated to navigate is things like sex, substances, money and time.

Sam (12:04):

So let's talk about time and money cuz are, I know we have talked about this before, so it would be very easy for me to kind of wait and wade into this. So it was honestly very hard for me. That part's very hard for me. The time and money was very hard because the LDS faith is very demanding on those two things. True tithing isn't really optional. If you wanna be a member in good standing, it's like it's a big deal. You don't get to go to the temple, which means that you don't get to go to heaven really mean, well the highest degree,

Tayla (12:41):

Super oversimplified,

Sam (12:42):

But very oversimplified. But it, there's some truth to that statement where money's a big deal. So that's one, it's a big deal <affirmative>. So that's why it's not super easy to be like, okay, well you do, you not do doing whatever that's, and say with Tom, it's a very time demanding religion

Tayla (12:59):

And that's like, there's the cultural component over that as well.

Sam (13:03):

So showing up to church, a church the service callings and then also all the social aspects of it. There's a lot of expectations on social activities, on top of responsibilities and as attending church. So yeah that's been very hard since honestly the thing that I value most in life is time. That's the

Tayla (13:26):

Number

Sam (13:26):

One. No that's the number one thing is time. So

Tayla (13:30):

How do you navigate it?

Sam (13:32):

It was hard. I feel like I sacrificed a lot during the first couple years of our marriage so that I could be supportive because I knew how important those interactions were. Cause I'd feel like wasn't giving our relationship a proper opportunity to succeed if I didn't sacrifice how I think we should be spending our time to make sure that you felt supported in your religion, in your faith.

Tayla (13:56):

Yeah. That's kind of funny cuz I feel like I did the same thing. I felt like I sacrificed a lot by pairing that down. Pairing down that time was a lot of overtime. It became a lot less than what it was or maybe what I had wanted it to be for the same reason so that I wasn't imposing or over.

Sam (14:17):

So I now I feel like we're in a really good space, me how I'm viewing it right now, which is that you have a desire for me to come to church with you on Sundays and that's not always the case. So sometimes but

Tayla (14:31):

For the most part, yeah.

Sam (14:33):

Yeah. So

Tayla (14:34):

That one hour, it's very specific. I don't expect you to stay for the whole time or go to any other activities and it's just really your involvement at least. Is that one thing?

Sam (14:43):

Yeah, that one thing. Which I think is a fair ask. And so that's why I feel like I think it's a good balance right now there's not a lot of additional things on top of that and there's been weeks where I, I played golf or I've done something and you've been very supportive of that. So

Tayla (15:01):

Yeah, that's taken some time too. So <affirmative>. Okay, so I guess you're thinking how to navigate time and money is just, I think the full disclosure, the real answer is that you both will just have to sacrifice unless one of you is a doormat, which maybe that's the case, both of you will need to sacrifice what you feel like you should be doing with your time and your money to an extent to kind of meet in the middle. Yeah, I think that's the fair way to navigate it.

Sam (15:31):

Yeah. So I feel like there's a, excuse me, a win-win scenario. You're basically just describing a good compromise and it feels like sacrificing a one side but on the other end is a more happy relationship in that area.

Tayla (15:52):

I think it can be a positive thing in some ways because at least for me it did really force me to be like what is actually my core, what is actually important to me and why and what is extra? And it's actually really healthy to do and I think it can be too much sometimes. So yeah.

Sam (16:06):

So how do you navigate values? What were the other one? Sex and

Tayla (16:12):

Sex and substances kind of intake. That's very common Christian

Sam (16:16):

So within the relationship or with teaching your children

Tayla (16:19):

Within the relationship. And then maybe I think we spoke about a little bit last time about how to navigate teaching your children, but I think we can speak to that a little bit after.

Sam (16:29):

So I'm

Tayla (16:30):

Not how to navigate when you have different boundaries in a relationship with sex and with substances

Sam (16:36):

So I'm not sure how the religion has a different boundary on sex. So I do understand it with substances, but I'm just not following on there. Specific sex things in the LDS faith.

Tayla (16:49):

Oh no, no, no. So that specifically sex before marriage

Sam (16:52):

Or not, but we were already married. So are you talking about

Tayla (16:56):

Someone advice to someone that is starting that relationship or in the dating period that

Sam (17:00):

Is

Tayla (17:01):

Maybe working towards marriage? I mean that's in a relationship that is not a marriage.

Sam (17:06):

Yeah, that's a hard one. It's a hard one

Tayla (17:08):

So that's why we gotta get into it. You're like please <laugh>.

Sam (17:15):

Well the thing is I find it hard to get into it because that is something that a religious person might just not be able to compromise on. Cause the answer is compromise. But this is why this is where there might be just an inability to grow their relationship further cuz to people that don't feel like sin be sex before marriages are sin then it's part of the dating process. It's part of getting to know the other person to see if you're compatible and are gonna be lifelong partners and get married. But if your religion teachers that that's just a no, then how do you progress past that? That's a very hard thing. There has to be some sort of level of compromise, some sort of level.

Tayla (18:02):

And as you say in this regard, it may be really just from one person or the other. And I think the hard thing, because if you're the religious person and you just decide to give in to that boundary, then that's really high cost. And I think that can cause a lot of emotional turmoil or cognitive dissonance where you're really struggling with that decision even though you wanna prioritize the relationship. And versus the other way around, if you're someone who feels like it's really important to make sure that that's something you're compatible in, that you're getting yourself into a right situation and that it's just a no, then that's high stakes maybe for you as well. So I think this is a really hard one and maybe one of the more difficult things in a relationship before marriage to navigate in a mixed faith kind of situation.

Sam (18:55):

True. So what did you mean by substances? So

Tayla (19:01):

For example, I think it's common actually in a Muslim faith, in this Islamic faith for a Muslim or for a lot of Christians, drinking is a no-no for example. And if it is for the religious person and isn't for maybe a different kind of religion person or a non-religious person, how do you navigate keeping it in the house or not keeping it in the house or even doing it or not doing it?

Sam (19:28):

Actually you think That's a great question that I'm just gonna flip right back to you cuz I think that hearing your opinion on this is gonna mean a lot because I mean I'm obviously okay with having alcohol in the house, having a drink outside dinner just being responsible, things like that. So how do you navigate it?

Tayla (19:45):

Yeah I that's dang it. <laugh>.

Sam (19:50):

Oh how the table's are turning.

Tayla (19:52):

<laugh>. I think it's a similar answer maybe to the time which is it really forces you to pair down to what is really important to me for us to have as a lifestyle choice together. And what is something that is not a big deal for us to have differing lifestyle choices on together. So for example, for me, and this is the one thing that I was smoking that is just so stupid, if anyone wanted my opinion on smoking, it's stupid to do. It's dumb to do. It's, it's not worth it. It can have so many risks on your health later on and things that could affect me in our relationship if you end up getting lung cancer or whatever. And so that for me that was like, okay, that's the really important thing when it comes to substances that is a no for me and you both, I'm not okay with you doing it and I'm not okay with me doing it and then figuring out where it matters less.

(20:53):

And I think that will kind of depend on the person. I think if someone has maybe an unhealthy relationship with alcohol or drug use or whatever, then maybe you boundary on that will be a stricter or less strict but it should be together. I think you should try and look at that together. And also then as the religious person, don't assume that you're the one with the healthier <laugh> lifestyle just because you maybe don't drink or whatever because it's worth it to maybe together take a look at I'm constantly on caffeine and on soda. Is that a shared lifestyle that we wanna have? Is it a deal breaker for you? So I guess that's what I would say is yeah, pair it down to what is actually important for you to share a lifestyle wise together. And then I think navigating that with kids is maybe a little different as well. What are your thoughts on that when parents have differing, lets say for example, I don't drink and you do, how do you handle that with bringing up children?

Sam (21:57):

Man, so that's something we are gonna have to learn cuz we still actually don't know yet. I mean obviously I feel like I probably have the more the less strict probably boundaries when it comes to things like that. But it doesn't mean that I have less strict values when it comes to behavior. I just don't necessarily see those drinking alcohol responsibly versus being addicted to soda.

Tayla (22:29):

<laugh>

Sam (22:30):

Soda or drinking and eating so much sugar and having an unhealthy relationship with a lot of things or prescription drugs, which apparently is a very huge hot thing for some reason. Yeah, it is. So yeah, I think that's a bridge we still have to cross. But I'm anticipating being supportive of the more stricter boundary but rather making sure that we infuse that with why that boundary exists. <affirmative> outside of just that's a religious principle

Tayla (23:03):

And we spoke about this a little bit last time where it is I think almost a better thing that we can speak to maybe a boundary that we would hold with our children <affirmative> from multiple facets. So we're not gonna be okay with our kids drinking. Why? Because they're brain damaged till they're 25. They're not smart. Also it's like it's not legal. There's a whole bunch of reasons and I can speak to that from a religious side and together we can speak to that from a scientific side on we care about your brain and we want you to be as smart and as capable but you're stupid as a teenager. It's unsafe and this is a boundary that we share together. And when you're an adult and are not brain damaged anymore, you can make these decisions based on that. But the value of moderation and health and self care is gonna be what we have to focus the most on so that I think it's easier to navigate.

Sam (23:57):

Yeah, exactly. Yeah

Tayla (23:59):

And I think, sorry, one thing I was thinking as we were talking is back to the navigating sex boundaries is just making sure that above all else, when it comes to technicalities, and this is just in general important to me and should be important to everyone, is just making sure that both parties do feel safe and respected on their boundaries sexually. And you just have to talk about it. And I think that's maybe not cultural for religious people to do, but you just have to talk about it. But both people should be making sure that each feels comfortable and not negatively pressured into doing or not doing something that is important to them.

Sam (24:35):

<affirmative> agreed

Tayla (24:38):

Onto the next little topic. You ready? Yep. Okay, so let's talk about navigating hard times or grief because that is one even told you. That's one that I'm kind of nervous about because since we've been married together, we haven't super dealt with a huge blow like a parent dying or a tragedy of a child or something. And that can be hard I think, in a mixed faith relationship because where you turn to for comfort or to understand what happened is totally different. Yeah. So what do you think

Sam (25:16):

Man? I think so by so obviously I've lost all my grandparents I've different stages. That was very hard. And I've also, when you leave the church very traumatic

Tayla (25:37):

Because you lost them while you were religious.

Sam (25:42):

I think every single one except one. No, I think I was religious on all of them and then obviously been through a divorce and I've also had lost dogs.

Tayla (25:52):

<laugh>, no, that's

Sam (25:53):

A real thing and I've lost a couple of friends and I know you have to. And then obviously we also have to face our own mortality. So it's a hard thing. And I guess where I start off with is death is inevitable that one of the sad things about life is that we will die. Nothing we can do to stop it. And it's a scary thing and it's a sad thing. Do we know what happens after we die? We don't. No, there's obviously different beliefs, there's different theories, there's different hopes, but I think that's part of the scary parts is that no one comes back that we know of.

Tayla (26:44):

Not really.

Sam (26:45):

And so how do we deal with that? For me, everything, my perspective changed on how to handle that to think about how much I should enjoy and appreciate the current time. So everything became a lot more meaningful to me when I was like, I'm not sure about what happens after death <affirmative>. So I, I've really made sure to emotionally soak in those relationships and that time and to try to appreciate all those things. It's made a big difference for me. So life has become a lot more sweeter and enjoyable for me just in general since that paradigm shift. But at the same time, especially

Tayla (27:29):

When not considering death,

Sam (27:31):

But then at the same time how to manage that it again, I'm going back to this idea that it's something you can't change. It's like do you remember being a kid and you had a plaster or a bandaid on a sore and at some point you knew that plaster had to come off that band, that bandaid had to come off and you dreaded it. Yeah. But honestly there was nothing you could ever do to stop that bandaid ever from not ever coming off it comes off. And so it's good to, if you could not live in that dread cuz the bandaid has to come off at some point <affirmative>. But if you just focus on living the rest of your life and enjoy all your other things, you'll have a much better experience. But if you spend the whole time just thinking and worrying and being scared of that bandaid coming off, you're going to have a bad time. But, but

Tayla (28:22):

When the bandaid comes off, how do you navigate that?

Sam (28:25):

Right. Yeah. So we haven't had to do it together. So I'll just be honest with you, I don't know how we do it together. I do know how I would do it on my own.

Tayla (28:33):

That's the problem though is cuz we would do it differently I think.

Sam (28:36):

Yeah. So I'm not particularly worried about that difference. I'm feel very capable of giving you love and support how you need love and support in those times. And I feel like whatever love and support you give me in those times and it means a lot. I think you just gotta make sure to be conscientious or cognizant of maybe the language you use. I don't wanna just be like, well and that's it. I'm so sorry that they're gone forever. They were good people. I would make sure to connect with you in how you believe and talk about how families are forever and how that's always be able to feel their presence and they'll always be with you in a special way and you'll be able to see them again.

Tayla (29:34):

Well I guess this is a question that I genuinely wanna know the answer to is, sorry, I feel a sneeze right there. But when faced with tragedy or grief, is that something that you would appreciate as well as just not saying things like, hey, you'll see them again when I know that you don't necessarily believe that and be kind of more on the empathetic side of like, oh my gosh, this is so hard, I'm so sorry. I'm not sure what

Sam (30:04):

To say. Yeah, not so I don't know. Have you read any books or papers or studies or maybe just anything about how to be supportive during grief? Yeah, so for the most part you don't want to give

Tayla (30:21):

Answers.

Sam (30:22):

You really just want to be there for that person and share that empathy. You don't have to give them answers, you don't have to give them like it's gonna be okay or they're great people, you know, don't have to communicate that you really are just being there as basically a shoulder and as a hug and as a support. So again, that I'm not too worried about having to navigate that together. But I do think though that there can be some big pitfalls that people can fall into in those moments. Cause it is one of the biggest moments of the differences in having a mixed faith relationship

Tayla (31:02):

And it's a critical time.

Sam (31:05):

So you definitely want to I'm not an expert so don't listen to me, but definitely go study up on how to be a really good support to a grieving family member or friend.

Tayla (31:18):

And I think just trying to, I think that gives me a lot of comfort actually. This is something that's brought me a lot of stress because I just don't feel like in general I will deal with or have dealt with death very well. <affirmative> I get very sad about it. And so I've been just nervous about how to navigate. But focusing on that has brought just in this conversation has wrote me a lot of comfort. I feel like we'll be able to navigate it and just use each other as that support. But that doesn't mean you can't look for the other support somewhere else with friends or parents that maybe believe the same. You could have different kinds of discussions about dealing with grief and navigating that and just using every person in your corner just in the ways that work I

Sam (32:06):

Think. Yeah.

Tayla (32:07):

Okay, so here's another one is navigating, making big decisions.

Sam (32:15):

Oh I got one. So

Tayla (32:16):

Because again, just a lot of religious people would pray about a big decision and make decision <affirmative> and make the decision based on spirituality, whereas obviously a non-religious person would not make a big decision that way. So

Sam (32:30):

How do you navigate? Yeah, we make decisions based on logic and reason in facts. <laugh> just, okay so I've gotta get out an example of this is a year ago-ish if not longer. I'm trying to do the math probably a year and a half ago. It's

Tayla (32:49):

A lot longer. Yeah, I think I know what you're gonna

Sam (32:51):

Talk about. Yeah, so we obviously having, after having Ella for about a year, we start talking about when to have the next child and we kind of talked about kind windows and timeframes and then right at the beginning of that window or just before that window, you said, Hey, I really feel strongly that there's a kid, a

Tayla (33:14):

Little boy,

Sam (33:14):

A little boy specific kid, a little boy that needs to come to her own a family and said, I know at the time you were, I think you're worried about how to judge you for that decision. And do you remember how I responded?

Tayla (33:31):

Yeah, you said you have to correct me if I'm not remembering right, but you said a couple things and one of the first things you said was that what I was experiencing could be perfectly true. Maybe that is the case. There is the potential that perhaps there is a little boy that's impatient to come and blah blah blah. But mostly you said if you feel that strongly about it and I don't have a reason why not to then it's something I want to support. And if we can go forward with that. So I think, I don't know, do you have different things

Sam (34:11):

An additional that's No, that's about how I remember it was basically if the important thing is that it's important to you. So it's do you remember,

Tayla (34:24):

Does it really matter where it comes

Sam (34:25):

From? Yeah. Do you remember being a missionary and you'd always feel like you're being led by the spirit almost all the time or it's something

Tayla (34:32):

I actually didn't, but I know what you mean. I know you mean a lot of missionaries did fit that way.

Sam (34:36):

What I mean by that is that a lot of times you could feel like this is God or the spirit or something, but really it could just be your feelings and emotions and how you feel strongly about something. And so it didn't matter if it came from God or not, it was important to you. And so that to me is the value in you talking to me about it and saying, I feel this strongly about this thing. And so hopefully was giving you a lot of support and understanding and acceptance of that feeling.

Tayla (35:06):

Yeah. So it feels like just listening to you, it feels like it goes back to that same kind of principle that we have spoken about a lot, which is to unite around values. And when it comes to making big decisions to M either way, whether it's based on a religious background or not, you're making decisions based on what you value, what's important to you. And then valuing that in the other person and respecting it and just doing your best to support what they value regardless of where it comes from is maybe the way to navigate it.

Sam (35:37):

Yeah.

Tayla (35:40):

How do you think we would've navigated it if I had brought up, oh it's time spiritually I feel like it's time to have another kid and you felt logically or whatever very strongly that we do not, how do you think

Sam (35:54):

So

Tayla (35:54):

Someone should navigate that?

Sam (35:57):

I think it comes down to what is realistic for your relationship. And I think that's where the religious side probably has to compromise. And it's not something that's unusual. I mean think about how times you've had a blessing or someone's told you a certain thing and it doesn't go according to what you thought was your spiritual plan for your life. That'd be one of those moments where that sort of discussion would probably need to happen. Where as much as you feel strongly spiritually about the realistic nature of where we at in our lives, there's limitations, there's limitation to this and cannot fulfill on that spiritual prompting

Tayla (36:32):

Or a weight patient kind of thing. That's a very common, okay. So that's gonna be hard to do I think depending on what it is. But it's, I think navigating that any partnership, whether it's religious or not, if someone wants to do something and the other person doesn't like you have to navigate that either way. Yeah, regardless. I mean this happens in religious relationships.

Sam (36:59):

Well think about it. How often do you think people have different spiritual

Tayla (37:05):

Counts? No, that's what I was just about to say is it's very common actually. Even is God told me this, well God is telling me this. That's actually happened to me in dating. I was told we're supposed to be married, I like God has. And I was like I don't know which one you are praying to, but that is not my impression. So you just have to navigate it. I guess any part of your relationship is just go talk and talk and talk and just try to figure it out I guess. Yep. Okay. Any other last things on that?

Sam (37:38):

No. Okay. I think you covered it with that law statement.

Tayla (37:41):

So I just have a couple of more general things I think you can just tell me to move on if this doesn't seem that interesting or move on. We feel like, ugh,

Sam (37:52):

Come on. Is it

Tayla (37:56):

How to deal with it when other people ask you about your mixed faith relationship but maybe in a way that is not as supportive, you know what I mean? I don't think many people are very outright judgmental or unsupportive of mixed faith relationships, but in the event that someone is kind of overtly that way, how do you feel?

Sam (38:22):

So being on the non LDS side, I don't get a lot of people ever really,

Tayla (38:34):

But when we started dating you had a few people kind of ask you about how the relationship was working because it just seemed so unusual.

Sam (38:41):

No, like I say, not really. I had a friend ask me what's it like to be back at church, you know, had also left and told him just what it was like. But no I didn't. I had went funny enough cuz I had just, cause I plan on moving to Hawaii right before we started dating. So I literally, I had a friend group here in Salt Lake that I would hang out with and I literally cut them all off. I literally just stopped hanging out, I stopped communicating with them or just was doing my own thing as I was moving to Hawaii. And I wouldn't say the word cutoff is the right word, but just rather just

Tayla (39:23):

Distanced.

Sam (39:24):

Just distanced. So it didn't have there, my family's obviously was all very supportive of it. Cause

Tayla (39:33):

They're religious. Yeah,

Sam (39:34):

Exactly. So for me, I don't really have a good answer for that. Not,

Tayla (39:37):

Yeah, I would say for me it's hard because, or at least at the time when we were first getting engaged or getting serious is I did feel like I needed to explain myself pretty often or justify my decision to a few people, friends or companions or even previous people I had dated that felt like maybe things didn't work out because I didn't think they were religious enough for me. And then they're like, wait, you're not even marrying someone. So I think that's an unfair thing in the first place. Unless you have an actual close relationship with someone, I don't know that you need to know. And so maybe just don't ask about it unless you actually have a close relationship that it's a normal thing that you would talk about but just some random neighbor or whatever. What does it matter to you? But when you are asked, I don't know if I have great advice beyond just doing it to your comfort level.

(40:47):

Don't feel the need to go into this whole explanation about how, cuz I did sometimes maybe feel pressured to be, I feel like one day Sam will come back or don't feel pressured to say stuff like that if that's not something you feel comfortable saying or doing. But you can just be as simple as I am making decisions and I feel good about them. But it can be hard I think, especially if it's parents or whatever. But we're probably are not the best advice on that cuz our family, all of our family were really supportive

Sam (41:20):

And great. Yeah, exactly. So thankfully your aunt, we had really good family like that. Yeah.

Tayla (41:25):

Okay, so to wind down on this a little bit I wanna talk about if we haven't mentioned any so far uncomfortable parts of being in a mixed faith marriage and the best parts in your view.

Sam (41:41):

So the, I'll start with the uncomfortable. I think for me the hard thing is to navigate the social dynamic of it. Showing up to church people. I don't dress in church clothes most Sundays. I, I look nice but I'm not wearing a white shirt.

Tayla (42:01):

You're fine. Yeah.

Sam (42:02):

Oh fine.

Tayla (42:03):

<laugh>

Sam (42:03):

Bad. So that's the uncomfortable thing is that I just know that my neighbors are going to be, think of me differently. That kind of sucks. So that's one of the things that is not fun about being in Utah cuz outside of Utah you don't really care about other people's religious status.

Tayla (42:24):

But I feel like no matter where you live, your reli, if you're going into a religious community as a support, whether you're not actually part of, there will be that element, whether it's Protestant or Jewish or whatever. If you're coming in and you're not really in

Sam (42:39):

For sure. So that kind of sucks but there's not overtly people that are mean or jerks or there's nothing like that.

Tayla (42:48):

But it's not as comfortable,

Sam (42:49):

No, it's not what you're saying because everyone either sees you as a project or an opportunity. I won't say everyone that's unfair, but there are definitely people that you as an opportunity or a project or we're just people <laugh>. So that's one of the uncomfortable things and I just know that it's just part of being here of the good. I mean are there any uncomfortable things for you?

Tayla (43:19):

I think a lot of them were just kind of navigating those boundaries when we were dating that was uncomfortable just because it wasn't as simple or easy to just be like that's the answer we had to really work through. I think maybe the uncomfortable part about it is just needing to compromise and sacrifice so much. I will say though that it's the beginning, it can feel like a lot, but it really isn't. When you get into a marriage you realize that's just a part of marriage in general. You get a lot better at it. You find your groove, you learn how to again focus on core things. But I think that was a little bit uncomfortable at first to feel like I was maybe sacrificing more than I expected to in my relationship religiously than I had planned.

Sam (44:04):

You know what I'm most excited about? The pies that are just about to be done. We, we've got steak pies. Look at that

Tayla (44:14):

Steak and stout. I'm gonna pause this so I can take 'em out. All right, can. Cool While we finish up here, <laugh> you also made some weird dessert that I'm excited to eat.

Sam (44:24):

so I go carrying on with this uncomfortable things, right? I do you feel like you are treated differently in our community or at church or in church callings or anything like that because you are married to someone that isn't part of the faith?

Tayla (44:44):

Yeah, for sure. Especially as I was getting married, I think a lot of people were like, oh are you not really in or active or do you not have these beliefs or these values? So yeah, I was definitely treated. And then when people, especially at my workplace when I worked at my church when they would hear, cuz it's so unusual in our community that I was married to someone who wasn't a member, they would just be so intrigued by it. And so, oh but it almost felt like a little bit of, not a negative thing but a fascination of a zoo almost.

(45:24):

How did that happen? Oh that's so unusual. She's working here and yet so I do think that but I would say for the most part I have been treated very well and very supportively for the most part. And people are good about respecting the boundaries that I put up for myself and for our family when it comes to our navigation with the church bishops or people that I've spoken to that are in leadership in our congregations and stuff have been really respectful for the most part. So I am treated like differently, but it's not necessarily negative

Sam (46:01):

I guess. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. So some of the positives. Yeah,

Tayla (46:06):

Best parts.

Sam (46:07):

Best parts. So there's two that I can think of off the top of my head. The first was that I like how it brings to the forefront the differences so that you need to be intentional on what your values are and what's important. So that definitely living intentionally I think leads to a better life and a happier life. The second is when the A you on is funny. So when the awe sometimes things that I'm just like, man, why is Tayla like that? Why don't you do that? And I was like, ah, stupid church

Tayla (46:44):

<laugh>.

Sam (46:47):

And obviously I'm being facetious in this, but there's a little truth to coating. Yeah, there's a little truth to, I was like, well I'll,

Tayla (46:54):

You can focus your negative emotions not on me.

Sam (46:56):

Yeah. I'll just blame something else. And I'm sure on some level you can do that too.

Tayla (47:00):

Yeah, that's funny that

Sam (47:01):

No, that's just as lack of belief.

Tayla (47:03):

Yeah, it's just an believer. It's being <laugh>, have the spirit <laugh>. Okay. Best parts for me, I would say I agree with the one I very much had to quickly learn. I already had done that as a single person, but I had to continue over the years to make sure that I was doing things cuz I was standing on my own two feet, not just because we got into a routine together and that's kind of what we started doing together and we kept doing it. So that was really good and healthy for me. And then the other thing I would say is, again, I actually think the benefit of parenting as our children get older, being able to speak from multiple lenses about the same value. I think for me as a child would be really reinforcing. It's not just, ugh, because they mom and dad, because that church leader told them that then so that's why I can't do drugs or whatever. You know what I mean? <laugh> but it's, hey, we are two very smart people from very different beliefs and backgrounds and we both agree for our different reasons that this is a value we have and I feel like it'll just be, for me as a child more convinced is how my brain worked. So I think that's a huge benefit is just having a little more rounding when it comes to parenting and that growth.

Sam (48:25):

Yeah, that's awesome.

Tayla (48:30):

And I think there is that benefit of being able to use each other as an excuse if I don't want go to a church function or something like <laugh>, oh it's so hard by myself. I mean it's not even just an excuse that it's hard to do stuff by myself with the kids, but you know what I mean. And probably vice versa, we like, oh, I'm not a believer, I can't come to that <laugh>, that family thing or whatever. So yeah, it's nice to escape with that. So main advice to finish off, main advice for someone in a mixed faith relationship as the non-religious person. So to an unreligious person, what is your main advice for them to navigate the relationship?

Sam (49:14):

It would be to spend time getting to know and understand that person's faith so that you can better understand where they're coming from. So put in the time and the effort to learn their religion, attend, get involved with the community. You know, don't have to it have to want to be deeply part of it, but at least get a better understanding of it. So where that person's coming from.

Tayla (49:39):

Yeah, I think as the partner of someone who would do something that would mean a lot and it would help me feel respected in the relationship. And then my main advice to someone in a mixed faith relationship on the religious side, if you're the religious person, would be to make sure to check yourself that you're not assuming that you're kind of in the higher ground or more correct because you have this belief. Open yourself up to hearing that other side and respecting it where it's coming from. And I guess just being humble and willing to compromise on your side too, not just expecting the other person to constantly compromise to you because you have these religious beliefs. So that would be my main advice. And then again that overarching theme of, I think we both agree, just focus on the values. If you have the shared values, you can do it. If you don't just in any relationship, it's not gonna work.

Sam (50:35):

Yeah, exactly. It's actually one of the benefits of being, of having a mixed facial relationship is that those different values I think will be highlighted very quickly, <affirmative> and very easily.

Tayla (50:46):

Yep. I agree. It's a lot easier to spot whether something's gonna work or not sooner, but the pies are calling. I think that's all I have to say on the topic.

Sam (50:57):

But yeah, that's all I have to say. And do we have WTA Shire? Oh no wta. How do you say it? What? Wor shire sauce. Sure, sure.

Tayla (51:09):

I don't know actually. I have heard that you either just say Worcester or Worcestershire South and <laugh>

Sam (51:17):

In South Africa you use a V instead of a

Tayla (51:19):

Wor. Yeah, wor. If you didn't finish it, we do have some.

Sam (51:24):

Just do it.

Tayla (51:25):

All right.

Sam (51:33):

Thank you for listening to

Tayla (51:35):

Babe. What do you know about,

Sam (51:38):

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