Moving

In this episode, Tayla and Sam discuss their histories with immigrating across continents and their relationships with moving in general. 

Transcript

Tayla (00:11):

Welcome to the Babe. What do you know about podcast?

Sam (00:14):

Where your hosts husband and duo, Sam and

Tayla (00:17):

Tayla

Sam (00:17):

Air the grievances publicly for your entertain and your co-host, Samuel Wilson.

Tayla (00:31):

I am literally recording now and we'll start it that way. No

Sam (00:35):

<laugh> boo.

Tayla (00:36):

We're doing it.

Sam (00:38):

There we go. You. Oh

Tayla (00:40):

My gosh. <laugh>. Yes I can. I'm just gonna bleep it out. <laugh>. <laugh>. I'll bloop that too. <laugh>. So I was thinking about what to talk about <affirmative> next. So many things we could talk about. And we have both lived a lot of different places and we have both immigrated to another continent at a very tender age. And so I thought it might be an interesting conversation. We kind of have two different philosophies on it as well. <affirmative>. So babe, what do you know about moving?

Sam (01:23):

Oh, actually a lot.

Tayla (01:25):

Yes, you do. How many places have you

Sam (01:29):

Lived? Okay, so not counting. If I was in one state for a long time and just kind of moved around a few houses, <affirmative>, I've took those out and a few little things here and there. So just general places 24.

Tayla (01:45):

And you are how old?

Sam (01:48):

I don't remember. It's 38.

Tayla (01:49):

38. And since we've been together you haven't really moved much. So you can erase almost like seven years of that.

Sam (02:00):

Yeah, this is the longest I've ever been in one place and it's

Tayla (02:05):

Dying side.

Sam (02:06):

I have a lot of anxiety right now.

Tayla (02:08):

<laugh>, I have also moved around a little bit in different cities and stuff and then I've moved back and forth in one place and then away and back to the same place and a way and back to the same place. But I have only lived in six places. <affirmative>. Really?

Sam (02:28):

Yeah.

Tayla (02:28):

Yeah. I've traveled a lot more, but yeah, it's not the same. Well

Sam (02:32):

I guess I could probably take a few off because of moving there and then, well, I moved to a city, so I moved in one place and then I moved in another place and I moved back to the same state but in a different city. I still counted those.

Tayla (02:43):

So how many countries have you

Sam (02:45):

Lived in? Oh, not a lot. So South Africa, the United States.

Tayla (02:49):

Nice. And I have lived in four countries of my six places.

Sam (02:57):

<laugh>. Wow.

Tayla (03:00):

So tell me, did you move around a lot as a child? Did your parents move

Sam (03:08):

A lot? Yeah, let's go back to the beginning. So the very first place that I lived in, I don't remember much of, cause I was only there apparently for maybe a year, just under two years in South Africa in a place called Waterfall, I believe is what it was called on I think a road called Glu Nugi Road.

Tayla (03:30):

Yeah. You're looking at me. I'm gonna confirm it, but I

Sam (03:33):

Don't know, I'm just wondering if you remember the stories. No. Okay. So anyways, the next place that I, and this I would call this my childhood home would be in Pine Town, South Africa. That's in Zulu.

Tayla (03:46):

Is that where you were the longest as a child? Yeah,

Sam (03:49):

Until I was about

Tayla (03:52):

13. Same house. Same house, Yeah. Wow. So you actually were pretty settled until you were a teenager. Very

Sam (03:57):

Settled, very stable. That was pretty much the only thing I knew was good. I think it was good.

Tayla (04:03):

And then Dun, dun, dun. What happened at 13

Sam (04:06):

<laugh>? Well, not at th. So we moved to Westville for about a year when I was 14 and then we immigrated to the United States before I turned 15.

Tayla (04:17):

So tell me about that.

Sam (04:20):

So not to go into too much details, but my parents basically sat us all down as kids and said, Hey we think we should move to the United States and we want to know what you kids think. We'd like to all make this decision together. So from what I remember, we all were super pumped and jazzed about going coming to the United States. And we moved it within a few months. It was like, I'm clicking away from the mic so it doesn't pick it up,

Tayla (04:54):

It's not too

Sam (04:55):

<laugh>. But yeah. And then we moved to Utah. It was quite a difficult immigration and it's taken years for all of us to go through the immigration process. In fact, my younger brother, Ben is still not a citizen because just of how long and difficult the process is. I just became a citizen right before we got married

Tayla (05:14):

2017, the month before I was joke that I technically married in American.

Sam (05:20):

Yeah, no take because

Tayla (05:21):

Of that.

Sam (05:21):

Yeah,

Tayla (05:22):

Good job

Sam (05:24):

<laugh>. And from what I know that you pretty much had a very similar immigration story

Tayla (05:31):

And No, so it was similar in that it was around the same age and it was from the same country to the same country or to even the same state. So when I was about 13, 12, 13, my family, my parents, they had been making plans to try come to the United States, but they decided actually not to talk to us about it until it was a thing. And then probably the middle of the year, maybe June or July they set us all down and informed us. So unlike yours, they kind of let us know that we would be moving in December to the United States to Utah. And I was not happy about it. <laugh>, I had a very good life I felt, and I had a lot of things I had been working towards in school and in sports. I was just about to get to the top grade in my elementary school, primary

Sam (06:27):

School extended five or

Tayla (06:29):

I was just about to enter standard five, just oh that's like best year. I was in grade six. I was just about to go into grade seven, which is the highest grade of the primary school <affirmative>, where you have prefect and that's like the top sporting things. I was just ready for that and had worked very hard in schooling and stuff to do well that year. So I was not happy. I mean the idea was a little bit exciting, I will admit. But a lot of us, quite a few of my siblings, once old enough to really know what was going on, push back a little bit. But that was it. The decision was done and it actually ended up that we ended the dates ended up moving way. We were gone in September, we left in September and that was it.

Sam (07:11):

Wow.

Tayla (07:12):

Just like that. In middle of school year. South Africa schooling the year ends in December, but in America schooling starts in August,

Sam (07:22):

September. So they got you could

Tayla (07:24):

Starts. Yeah. Well I don't know, I can't actually remember technically why it moved up so much. Maybe it was they needed my dad at the job he was moving to, but I jumped, skipped almost half of sixth grade and jumped a month in late or two or three weeks late into grade seven in the United States and in a middle school, which we don't have in South Africa.

Sam (07:47):

Yeah. Wow.

Tayla (07:49):

So <laugh> wasn't a positive experience for me at the time, probably because unlike you, I feel like we've talked about this a little bit, that with your family, I feel like you guys felt a little more ownership, a little more control because you decided together as a family to come.

Sam (08:08):

Yeah. And to their credits maybe we didn't have any sort of,

Tayla (08:15):

They just helped you feel like you didn't Yeah,

Sam (08:17):

To this day I've never actually asked that question. I just, I've just always assumed and maybe I don't want to know the answer, but I really did feel like we all made the decision together. And so when we're here and even though we were facing challenges and similar thing, it was literally November 28th when we landed. So it's end of the year. So I'd finished the year and I also skipped ahead and it was already months into the next school year and there was a lot of challenges. And I mean I was a tiny little kid and there's all these grown up

Tayla (08:52):

Teenagers,

Sam (08:53):

<laugh>. So yeah, there were a lot of challenges. But when I did have them come to me, I was like, I wanted this. I'm going to overcome this because with all these difficulties look at all these other cool things because even though there were these challenges on the positive side of the column, it was like way good. I loved being here.

Tayla (09:16):

Yeah. Whereas for me, I was able to be a very angsty and any time something went wrong or was hard, I blamed my parents badly for it. I was like, this is their fault that I should never have been here. It should never have happened. All this stuff. And I actually feel so bad looking back because I recognize now as an adult that the move was actually very difficult for my parents as well. The culture was different. We lost so much money coming cause it's so expensive to move. It was hard for them to make friends culturally and I'm sure they were struggling too. And then to hear your kids be like, everything sucks and it's your fault. And just be so ungrateful for the huge sacrifice that they had just made. I feel really bad and I feel like I've apologized a couple of times to my parents. But that's what happened because I felt absolutely no control. This happened to me. So very happily remained a victim, <laugh> of circumstance.

Sam (10:20):

The same thing with my parents. And it's actually one of the things that always motivates me to do well or be good or be happy or just live a fulfilled life is how much they sacrificed for us to come here. Yeah. I mean I know we blend in because we're white, but we still face the same challenges in terms of the difficulty of getting job, not me, but my parents getting jobs and

Tayla (10:47):

Visa issues,

Sam (10:48):

Visa issues assimilating with the culture, making friends. I know those are challenges, but my parents are faced.

Tayla (10:55):

And the other one I think about, I know my parents really struggled with was knowing how to parent in what's okay in this culture and what do kids, what is okay for kids and what isn't. Cuz it's super different. So yeah, that was a very mature way for you to think of things that I need to live a great life because my parents sacrificed so much and in my brain I was like, what a waste <laugh>. But now I do, I am so grateful and feel so bad for putting my parents through such a hard time in addition to their other hard times.

Sam (11:27):

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I love South Africa. Every rugby match that South Africa plays in, I've got the, I've it on whether it's two o'clock in the morning, I've got my phone in bed watching them play Australia or whatever.

Tayla (11:40):

Do you still get emotional when you hear the anthem?

Sam (11:42):

Well yeah I do. I get more emotional while I'm watching the game. But yes,

Tayla (11:47):

I get so emotional during the Anthems

Sam (11:50):

<laugh>.

Tayla (11:51):

But yeah, I feel a great attachment there. But at the same time you can't know what your life would've been like. You only know what your life is like now.

Sam (11:59):

So because of our different immigration stories, do you think that's part of the reasons why we now have different, or have had different opinions on us moving as a family? Because yeah, we get together, I'm like, hey, let's move to Hawaii, let's go do this. Let's travel to this country, let's go live away. And you're like, I would like to settle down and nest and build a house and a community and stuff like that.

Tayla (12:28):

Any psychologist or anyone with a brain can see that our different experience says very much affect the anxiety or feelings about moving now. And for me I was, I'm like, oh let's travel, travel, travel, travel. But moving <laugh>, first of all I'm a little bit lazy, so that's a lot of work. You sell everything and back everything, organize everything. But also I do think I've, especially when we were contemplating having kids and stuff, yeah I felt very much this control need because probably my lack of control as a child, I feel a need to control my environment and do I have these specific doctors and do I know these specific resources and am I close to anyone that I know? Because I wasn't when I moved for sure it affects me.

Sam (13:17):

Now hold on side note sidebar. Is this why our dentist is 45 minutes away Because this person, this is

Tayla (13:26):

Literally, this is what I know's not actually <laugh>. My aunt used to work for this dentist and they said he was great and so we started going and we just haven't changed because I don't know how to look for a good dentist. That's maybe an adult thing I should learn how to do. We should probably get a dentist. There's plenty of great dentists,

Sam (13:45):

He's a great dentist, don't get me wrong. But driving 45 minutes to the dentist for a

Tayla (13:49):

Kid

Sam (13:49):

Blows my mind.

Tayla (13:51):

You're right, we should make the change. This wasn't the outcome I was expecting from our podcast, but it's on my list. This

Sam (13:57):

I'm ju I'm just glad we have some solutions from this.

Tayla (14:01):

Something

Sam (14:02):

To improve. Anyway, back to you.

Tayla (14:04):

Oh yeah. But what about you? Do you think that, I guess what, you have moved a ridiculous amount of times even for people who have moved a lot and you don't even have military background or anything to excuse for it. So what do you think is behind that? So

Sam (14:23):

With the traveling, there's a lot of excite, you know, love to travel because you love experiencing new cultures, seeing things that you don't see here. Food, the food, different people. It, it's a very much the same thing. And I think because I had learned many different skills adapting to moving here, that initial challenge of man, how on earth do you adjust and assimilates and change and feel comfortable in your own skin in such a dramatic change. I think I kept those skills and then as I made a move I was like, Oh cool, I, I've figured out how to be here. And then it just kept happening and I just really enjoyed it. And obviously there's moves outta necessity moves out of pleasure then. Yeah, so I think for me, I, I'm trying to do some soul searching right now. <laugh>, I think I, I really like to travel. I do love to live in that place. I feel like I get a deeper sense of understanding living there versus traveling there cuz I feel like they're all those similar experiences there's some slight differences and I love being there long enough to start feeling the challenges that come from living in that particular place.

Tayla (15:46):

So you are addicted to moving because <laugh>,

Sam (15:51):

I don't think I'm addicted to moving. I would like to make maybe one or two more moves in my life. And

Tayla (15:57):

That was my next question is, yeah, do you feel like you're gonna have the need to continue to move or is it just that you haven't found the right place to land up?

Sam (16:06):

I think I've found there's many different right places. We've spoken about hey what do you like and stuff and I've kind of built lists and spreadsheets

Tayla (16:17):

And my word

Sam (16:18):

Rankings and ratings and literally I've got so much data on all the different places around the world in terms of safety and weather and water temperature and shark attack rates and every single, the whole thing anyways. So

Tayla (16:34):

Now with kids, all the kids stuff, schools

Sam (16:36):

Exactly and schools and yeah it's pretty intense. But I think with all the traveling now I really know what I like and what makes me the happiest. And then in my mind I see a place that makes us both happy and also a great place to raise children and trying me to imagine what it's like to grow up in a place. And I'd like to have that for Ella and Max cuz I don't want to move around while they're in that the younger years. I just feel, I mean even just mentioned that article I read about how moving often for young children can be really emotionally difficult for them and they can develop different sorts of problems because of it. And I want to give them the best opportunity and I feel like we're gonna mess them up enough as parents just by being normal parents. So I don't wanna throw that in as a multiplier. So yeah, definitely wanna limit the moves while they're in that stage.

Tayla (17:41):

I'm gonna post a child for control issues due to <laugh> those moves as a child. So it would be great to not ruin them. <laugh>. Yeah, that way

Sam (17:51):

I don't see more than between one and three moves for the rest of my life. I think that's it. But I really am glad I moved so much and have been able to formulate the different opinions that I had and also realizing what I really makes me happy.

Tayla (18:08):

So this is another thing is people, everyone that knows you, everyone around you knows that you are not really happy where we are. And <laugh>, they also know how badly you want to leave and move. And so I'm constantly being asked is, it's so funny, it's not even necessarily, are you guys gonna move? Is Sam looking to move And just <laugh>, I would love to know why you feel like the environment that you're in, the place that you live, why does it affect you so much? What is it about it? And then perhaps I would like to also know through all your data, what have you learned about trying to find that ideal place to settle in?

Sam (18:59):

Okay, so currently we live in Provo, Utah and first, and we talk about all the great amazing things and why even if we never moved I, I'd be happy here. I, I'd think I have a different ideal and so

Tayla (19:15):

Happy ish. Yeah,

Sam (19:16):

Yeah, no, I'm happy. So Provo is beautiful. I was driving up to Park City back today and it's like, the trees are pink and orange and red and yellow and then green pine trees and then

Tayla (19:31):

There's in the mountains,

Sam (19:32):

Oh my gosh. And layers of just beautifulness and obviously it's only like that for a part of the fall. And then there's other beautiful times of the year and there's other beautiful things here. There's beautiful rivers, there's beautiful lakes. I mean we live right up against a mountain. I mean it's literally, we look out the window and we

Tayla (19:51):

Can walk to the mountain to hike.

Sam (19:53):

So from where we live and then we've got a beautiful view out the window. I, we literally have probably everything that we could want. Very lucky. And I, it's beautiful here. The weather is 50 50, so there's good times in the year and then there's bad times of the year. So I don't like that I'm, I'm not much of a cold weather person, so it's kind of brittle. And then the summers here are also kind of hot

Tayla (20:21):

As

Sam (20:21):

Hell. Hot. It's like being in an oven. So about half the year it's phenomenal weather though. So that's really good. Bad air quality, I don't like that on my list. So Utah and Provo, we don't have good air quality. I love the cost of living here. We were for fortunate enough before Covid we were able to buy a house and so we missed that crazy inflation of everything and we're able to also lock in a good mortgage rate for those of you that

Tayla (20:52):

Aren't interested in that kind of nerdy thing.

Sam (20:57):

And then obviously I'm close to my family here and close to your family, which for as much as I try to not socialize, I do love being close to family. I work with my brothers and while I gets to work with my family, my mom and dad Are

Tayla (21:11):

There everyone in

Sam (21:12):

Your family? Oh, my sister-in-law and my other sister-in-law,

Tayla (21:15):

Literally everyone except for me and one other sister-in-law works

Sam (21:18):

For, Oh yeah, my other brother, he's there. Yeah. Yeah, that's good stuff. And then your parents and your family live close by and they're great. They're a huge support to us not just with the kids but with us as well. If we need something, they're always there. So it's really nice to have a network of people in your family. But then we also, we know the area in terms of, I spent so many years here in Utah and so we know all the amenities, we know everything.

Tayla (21:48):

That's literally everything except for dentists <laugh> apparently.

Sam (21:56):

Okay, I'm here. Yeah. And there's a lot to do to do here. So you'll never once in terms of getting bored, you, there's hiking and snowboarding.

Tayla (22:07):

Unless you're a boring person, there's so much to do.

Sam (22:11):

Internet speeds are good. So my

Tayla (22:12):

Google fiber,

Sam (22:13):

Google fiber, so that that's great. Not an ad. <laugh> and the food food's actually getting better here.

Tayla (22:21):

Yeah, definitely

Sam (22:22):

By the month

Tayla (22:22):

There's a lot of immigrants and international people here and I think they, they're bringing all that food, which I love

Sam (22:30):

And I'm sure I've gotta find that list. I've made a list of all the things I love about Provo and all the pros and cons. But in terms of why not here, I found that I am genuinely happier by the ocean and that's be the first and foremost. So if Provo had an ocean, so if imagine Utah Lake <affirmative> 10, 15 minutes away, if that was the ocean, then perfection. Cause that one the weather would be better, it'd be more temperate. But anyways, I

Tayla (23:02):

Often joke about that <affirmative>, that Utah has everything except for the ocean.

Sam (23:06):

So if I could take all the pros of Provo and take it to an ocean somewhere, I'd be very happy.

Tayla (23:16):

So talk to me about your rankings as you've been vigorously since we've been together literally for years. Just researching and dreaming and all that about

Sam (23:27):

Places to live, All the places I've lived by the coast by the ocean. So there's been California, Florida, Texas I guess Louisiana has the ocean there too. <laugh> Hawaii. And obviously I've traveled to all the coastal cities in the united, well not all of them, not the Northeast but all the warmer areas. And then obviously out of country travel to other country, to the Caribbean and Costa Rica, et cetera.

Tayla (23:57):

Yeah,

Sam (23:59):

I would have to say out of being living in all those areas, I love Hawaii especially the north shore of Oahu, which is basically, it's kind of country so there's less people and it has just the best ocean in the world. It's in the summer, it's flat, it's like a lake, excuse me you can snorkel and you'd can swim and set up paddle board during the summer and it's just lazy and great and amazing. And then in the winters time, there's the best waves in the world. The best surf in the world happens on the north shore. So if you like to body board or surf or kite board, whatever it is in the ocean or wave photography, there's all sorts of things that you can do in the ocean winter time as well. And the water's warm so you can use it all year round. And the weather's perfect. I love the vegetation. It reminds me a lot of where I grew up in South Africa

Tayla (24:57):

And the birds,

Sam (24:58):

Even in the birds and everything. I mean it's just amazing. I love the humidity. It's not too hot, not too cold. When it rains, it's that lovely warm rain that you can just walk out in. Yeah,

Tayla (25:09):

There's not even too many mosquitoes.

Sam (25:11):

Not even too many mosquitoes. And there's hiking there too, so it throws in that last little bit that I never thought I would have with the ocean. There's beautiful mountains in Hawaii and so just right there on the north shore, you can go hiking up in Lae, Ula trail down on the east side, just there's everything to do there. The only downside, you need a lot of money to live there.

Tayla (25:34):

It's a hell of a lot of money,

Sam (25:36):

A hell of a lot of money. Also there is some lack of infrastructure, so you really have to know where to find and how to manage good schooling, good hospitals et cetera.

Tayla (25:49):

So I would say, well I would ask maybe, so for anyone that's looking to move or has moved, what would you recommend are the top things to start thinking about and looking into and how do you do the research that you do? Because I will say it is obsessive, it's hours and hours, hundreds of hours. So maybe condense that to more normal people. <laugh>.

Sam (26:20):

Yeah.

Tayla (26:21):

So how would you recommend to approach figuring out a place to be?

Sam (26:25):

I didn't know. So when I was moving to Hawaii the first time, I actually didn't want to go. It didn't sound that great to me. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy?

Tayla (26:33):

It doesn't even sound like

Sam (26:34):

It doesn't like me. I was like, Oh cool, everyone talks about how great Hawaii is. And I was like, Oh yeah, cool. I mean I hadn't, I had spent some time in California right before this and I was loving California. I mean it was great. I mean on the mainland you can drive your car anywhere that's, see this is where my mind was. I was like, Oh, you're gonna be stuck on an island and everything's gonna be so expensive and there's gonna be nothing to do. And that's where my brain was going. And once you get there, obviously it's a different story. But those were the negatives that I was thinking about. So going run rerunning back to your question would, so I would say first definitely start traveling and seeing what things stand out to you in terms of that make you happy. Maybe you are a beach person, maybe you aren't a beach person, maybe you're a mountain person, maybe you're a desert person, maybe being in the forest makes you happy. Maybe being in suburbia makes you happy, I think

Tayla (27:32):

By family. Yeah,

Sam (27:34):

Yeah, by family ones. If the most important thing to you is being by family, then that's what will make you the happiest. It doesn't matter where it is. So that's, everyone's gonna have their own taste and that would be, So that's gonna be the first thing that I would say is definitely start traveling.

Tayla (27:50):

Can I add an addition to that or a caveat? Absolutely. So this would be, and this is how we like to travel, is travel local. I guess don't just stick with the touristy things and the touristy spots with all the white people with a lot of money that are coming into the area. Go branch out a little. Try find spaces outside of those big typical touristy areas. It's not to say, not go to them, but don't stay there only because that's not gonna give you a great view of what it's like to actually be there and live there. And that's what I would say is travel in that way.

Sam (28:32):

So speaking to that even when we're like, we've done the cruisers, I just want to get away from those things. Whether we talk to a local taxi driver and say, Hey, please take us to somewhere where no one else is gonna be. It doesn't matter if it's amazing or not, but the way we do to travel is wherever we fly into, we rent a car and then just drive away. And I'm trying to see and experience things that are harder to see and experience. And like you said, there's nothing actually wrong with the touristy areas. I think honestly, I just have a lot of social anxiety. And so being

Tayla (29:10):

Around that propels a lot of your decisions is where there are no people. Let's

Sam (29:15):

Go there. Yeah. Cuz I bet you the tourist areas are amazing. That's why they're so definitely populated just for me. I don't enjoy those places when they're so crowded. Cause it's hard to see it for what it is or experience it for what it is when it's just so many people. And again, that's obviously my experience.

Tayla (29:34):

Yeah, I love

Sam (29:34):

That. But once you've found your place, that's when research starts coming in. I think there's a website called best places.com, and you just start finding all the different rankings of different things, whether it's how to find jobs there or what's the cost of living, what's the crime rates, what's the weather, et cetera,

Tayla (29:55):

Taxes, health, <affirmative>, all those things. And you watch a ton of YouTube videos, literally Saturday morning come out and there's a video about whatever.

Sam (30:07):

Yeah, exactly.

Tayla (30:08):

Maybe speak to

Sam (30:09):

That a little. Yeah, so I mean obviously research on websites and getting data is one thing, but trying to see it a lot is very important. And YouTube's one of the best places for that. There'll be a lot of content or people that have either lived there or traveled to it. And then it's always good to then go visit it yourself and see if it's actually, see it's a place that you would actually like or not.

Tayla (30:35):

So I actually, I wanna switch gears a little bit, if that's okay. And pick your brain for something that hopefully makes me laugh, but I wanna hear about a terrible move.

Sam (30:46):

Move

Tayla (30:47):

When you moved somewhere and it was a horrible experience and mostly I'm looking to laugh at.

Sam (30:54):

So, okay, this is gonna sound terrible because it was absolutely one of the prettiest places I've ever lived. And there was a lot of joy there. Moving to Maui. Maui sucked. So

Tayla (31:07):

<laugh>. Yeah,

Sam (31:10):

I was living on in Oahu before this on the North shore, and I was in heaven finally. I was like, you know what? This is the place. That's how I felt after being there for about three or four months. I was like, this is it. I finally feel at home. So you do. You know what I mean? That feeling like I felt at home living in South Africa and I never felt that in all the other places I've ever lived. And then on the North Shore, finally I was

Tayla (31:37):

That feeling

Sam (31:38):

Like this is where I belong. And then moved to Maui. And it's very similar in a lot of ways, but then all of it's something, it felt like bizarre world where it's

Tayla (31:48):

Just, I wanna know details. What do

Sam (31:50):

You mean? So when I was first looking at apartments there or places to stay, we were on the northeast side and it was just so bizarrely, hippies, there's just hippies everywhere. Hippies, hippies everywhere. And I, man, I'm gonna be so offensive, I guess wouldn't say, but hippies everywhere. And it just made me feel uncomfortable. So <laugh>. Then I went to the south side looking for places and found some decent places in Kihe South. And it was obviously touristy, but it was nice. And a lot of beautiful beaches as you grow up that's got east on there, southeast. And then obviously if you go around to the west side and the northwest side is beautiful beaches. But I didn't have enough money there. And so what turned into paradise was me. All of a sudden I was working on music at the time and it wasn't really making any money, even though music, even though music was now getting placed on VH one, VH one, what was it called?

(32:49):

Something like that. And then MTV Road rules and all these other shows, but the checks weren't coming in yet and weren't selling music to a fan base and et cetera. So there's like no, no, not enough money. So all of a sudden I'm on Craigslist doing odd jobs. I'm roofing and doing construction and I'm cleaning stuff. And so there wasn't any time to really enjoy Maui at all. And when I did finally find Tom, it was, it just wasn't clicking. It was again exotic and beautiful and I loved it. And one of my favorite, most valued positions in the entire world comes from Maui. But living there was just bizarrely sad. And so didn't stay there super long and eventually just said, we gotta move back to the mainland. And moved back to the mainland. So interesting. Maui. Maui.

Tayla (33:42):

Mine was when I moved to Florida, and maybe this is again back into my psychology, because it was for my Mormon mission, and that's when you're assigned a place to go live for 18 months or two years or whatever. I

Sam (34:02):

Was, once again, you have no say

Tayla (34:04):

In this, no say. And I was freaking assigned to Florida. I'd never been there. But my brother had just lived there, which was, and he had very interesting stories of, And the Florida man, it just sounded like a crazy, crazy, crazy place. And when I got there, I just absolutely got wrecked by bugs wrecked and not just mosquitoes, which by the way, I'm allergic to mosquito bites badly.

Sam (34:35):

Yeah, you pretty much swell up everywhere. Literally

Tayla (34:38):

It becomes a big fat bruise like my blood coagulates. And so I'm

Sam (34:43):

Getting, It's honestly concerning.

Tayla (34:45):

It's concerning. It's concerning. It's, it sucks. And it wasn't just mosquitoes someone and I didn't believe them. I get there, I arrived to this place. I first lived kind of in Titusville, Coco Beach in Florida, and some locals were telling me about a bug called No cms. Have you heard of those? Because it sounded absolutely made up. <laugh> lived in Florida. Yeah. Have you

Sam (35:11):

Heard of those? I mean I've heard that. I've never seen one, but I've heard of them.

Tayla (35:15):

That's so funny cuz they're called No cms, you've never seen them literally. So they're telling me about this bug that bites you and they come out and I was like, the sound's totally made up. And then one day I was getting bitten by something. I could feel it fit in mosquitoes. You don't usually feel it at the time, <affirmative> after. But I was like, I think I am currently being bitten by something. I look at my arm and I see a spec of dust and I move it. And that was the tiny bug. So I get there, I'm riddled with bug bites, I'm this cockroaches and I was just like, this is not on, I'm not enjoying this. I am used to Utah where you go under a shade and that's cooler in the shade. And I was biking around cause that was my form of transport, was on a bicycle, sweating my guts out, go under a shade and nothing. In

Sam (36:13):

Fact, it just

Tayla (36:13):

Feels exactly, there's the

Sam (36:14):

Same More humid.

Tayla (36:15):

Yeah, more humid. I <laugh> and I was with some other girls that were there and they're like, Don't bother wearing any makeup cuz it'll melt off your face by 10:00 AM. And so literally we all just bought waterproof mascara, not because we were swimming or anything, but literally the air. So I loved Florida because I loved my experiences, but I did not enjoy living there. And that's good stuff to know. That's why it's I think, helpful to <affirmative>. If I had even gone on a holiday there, I would've at least known like bug spray it up.

Sam (36:53):

Yeah. But you were assigned to go there, so what were you supposed to do?

Tayla (36:57):

Yep. Everything <affirmative> about my body was also, again, I have a hard day. I'm like, man, whoever freaking assigned me to come here, it's their fault. I just get to be a victim all over again. My favorite thing apparently.

Sam (37:09):

Well, here's something I want to know, now that you've get a chance to ask me questions. So when we first started dating, you knew I wanted to move to Hawaii. We got married and we've been going to Hawaii every year since we've been together. That's

Tayla (37:24):

Like except 2020 covid year.

Sam (37:27):

Yeah. But we did go twice the next year, I think The previous year. The previous year. Okay. So why knowing that I was trying to move to Hawaii and knowing that I want to move to Hawaii, what are your reasons of not moving to Hawaii? I I'd like to know

Tayla (37:48):

Now or at the time?

Sam (37:49):

At the time, yeah.

Tayla (37:51):

Again, it just felt like another, someone else wants to move there. I don't wanna move there. I've never been there. Also, it just sounded like small. In fact, we even took a trip there, a holiday just when we were dating, not even engaged or anything, cuz you're trying to test me out. And I went there and I was like, It's lovely for a holiday, but would I wanna live here with the chickens? And no,

Sam (38:14):

The chickens are half the

Tayla (38:15):

Reason. I know I love them now, but it, that's just how in the middle of no way, at least the area that we were <affirmative>. And I really loved it. But I definitely felt like this is a holiday. It's not a place to live. It's so far away. I don't know any, I don't know where I am. Just that horrible feeling of not being in control at all. But as we kept going back and then it became familiar to me, I know the roads that we go down and the places to eat, and when people are mentioning cities or towns, I know what they're talking about. The more we went, the more I was enchanted by it and actually really liked it. And I think part of that was a maturity thing too, because I was super social when we were first dating and just constantly wanting to be around people. And the older I get, the more reclusive I get, thanks to you probably <laugh>. And so it doesn't bother me that there's not that many people and that we're a bit further away from people we know. So yeah, I guess. But yeah, when we first went there, I was nervous to tell you maybe we could <laugh> move him the lives, but inside I was like, maybe I could just convince him not to move him.

Sam (39:33):

And do you remember a moment when it changed and you were like, Hey, I'm now open to this sort of a place to live or just not living in Utah?

Tayla (39:46):

I was super open to not live in Utah. And I think, so that wasn't it. I do think that the more stable our relationship got where it's not just maybe if we happen to end up together and get married and then move together to this other place, it very much was okay, we are gonna be together and this is something we could do. And then I also had moved to Belgium for a little bit all by myself alone. Not with a school group, not with anything, just with a friend of mine to do an internship there. And I had never been there before. I just felt a lot more empowered with the unknown and had such a positive ex, I just loved it. Living in Belgium I think I just felt, I think my aversion to maybe moving anywhere, but especially to who I was, just that control issue, the fear of the unknown, not feeling at home, not being able to leave, feeling trapped somewhere. But that kind of went away. I think with more and more experiences,

Sam (40:45):

<affirmative>

Tayla (40:46):

And then stability in our

Sam (40:48):

Relationship. Do you see moving in your future? So for me, I was saying maybe one, maybe up to three moves in my lifetime. Still live to go.

Tayla (40:58):

I don't even know that I have too much of a cap on. I think it could move even more than that, but I don't need to move. But I'm very open to it at this point. I think you'd have just taught me a lot of a philosophy of living to be happy. And so if I'm not happy, I will move and I would like to move. So I think I could see myself moving one to three more times or maybe more if we're just not settled into the right place. Obviously again, with kids when they're young, you don't wanna overdo it. And so I'll avoid doing that. But we're not gonna be parenting parents forever. They're gonna leave us and it's just gonna be you and me again. We can just do whatever the hell we want. So I plan to do whatever the hell we want <laugh> and who knows what that will be At the time,

Sam (41:49):

My brother John, he mentioned to me, he's like, I've just got a couple more years and then I'm an empty nester <laugh>.

Tayla (41:56):

I know as I talk to him about, as I ask his kids their plans, they're like, Yeah, I'll live at home. <laugh> <laugh>. But he could be, right?

Sam (42:05):

Yeah, he could be. That's too funny. Yeah, we've got a long way to go. We've got 18 plus years until that happens again, I'm, I'm gonna be old.

Tayla (42:15):

Yeah, you will be old, but you don't look old. So maybe your body will stay young enough for you to still have fun and stuff.

Sam (42:23):

I just feel like manopause is gonna hit me at some point and it's gonna overnight me.

Tayla (42:27):

Is that a thing? I've literally never heard that phrase.

Sam (42:30):

I just made up that phrase right now. Did you Now, don't Google it, <laugh>.

Tayla (42:36):

It's amazing.

Sam (42:37):

Thank you. But I didn't make

Tayla (42:38):

It up. Manopause is gonna Yeah, kick in. Ugh. Yeah. I do think the fact that we traveled so much when we were young <affirmative>, Well, I was young, you were not. But when we were newly married and didn't have kids, Yeah, I think it was really fun.

Sam (42:55):

Yeah. And we obviously try sneak it in still with kids <affirmative>, but it's just so much harder. And that's probably maybe a whole nother topic for an whole nother podcast is how to travel with kids and should you Yeah, No,

Tayla (43:07):

No, you should what?

Sam (43:09):

Perfect.

Tayla (43:11):

It'll be a great podcast topic. Yeah, no, but it is a lot more work. But then you have to remember them being they're small two and zero years old, so they won't be as needy or as difficult forever.

Sam (43:24):

So to wrap things up for this podcast, I would love to know what you're gonna tell your dad when you eventually No, no, no, no. When you eventually move away and break his heart,

Tayla (43:33):

<affirmative>. No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, I'll just, we'll make sure to move to an ocean where he wants to be and we'll take the children. So they'll come visit a lot.

Sam (43:45):

Oh

Tayla (43:45):

Yeah, that's a great idea. And obviously we'll make sure we can visit a lot too. I wouldn't wanna move ever in a place where we just couldn't access people important to us. That was that difficult to see them. So I guess that's what I would tell 'em. But I am also curious. Your mom also loves having you close by and has not lived close to you for a long time. And she's always asking, when do you wanna leave? So I wanna know, how are you gonna explain to your mom?

Sam (44:14):

It's just gonna be a hard tearful moment. That's probably what it's gonna have to be.

Tayla (44:20):

Yeah. We'll just make sure there's a room for whoever you come see us

Sam (44:24):

Anytime. Come live with us if you want.

Tayla (44:26):

Oh really?

Sam (44:27):

Yeah.

Tayla (44:28):

It's on record. My parents might actually take you up. If we live on an ocean somewhere, my mom will just die. She'll come live with us for sure.

Sam (44:38):

Hawaii. Let's go.

Tayla (44:39):

Let's do it. Just gotta make our millions <laugh>. Well thanks Babes. It was good to kind of hear from your experience.

Sam (44:47):

Yeah. So nice and easy. Breezy one. Yep. Thank you for listening to

Tayla (44:58):

Babe. What do you know about,

Sam (45:01):

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