Inter-Faith Relationships (Part One)

In this episode, Sam and Tayla talk about their experience living in an inter-faith marriage, and specifically pinpoint advice on how to successfully start a mixed-faith relationship. 

Transcript

Tayla (00:11):

Welcome to the Babe. What do you know about podcast?

Sam (00:14):

Where your hosts husband and duo, Sam and

Tayla (00:17):

Tayla

Sam (00:17):

Air their grievances publicly for your entertainment.

Tayla (00:22):

Hey. So episode two.

Sam (00:25):

Yeah. I listened to episode one,

Tayla (00:28):

<affirmative>.

Sam (00:29):

It was good. It was fun to listen to our conversation.

Tayla (00:32):

Yeah, I listened to it just a little bit. It had been a few weeks maybe even. So it was good to listen to it when I couldn't really remember what we had talked about.

Sam (00:44):

It was honestly a roller coaster of emotions for me. Cuz as I started speaking I was like, Yeah, I agree with what I'm saying, <laugh>. And then later I was like, I agree with this change of, I was like, Yeah, corporate punishment. Then I went back to like, Oh no, this is stupid. This is terrible. And I was like, Oh wait, but then there's these reasons for it and then I was all over the place. It was amazing. So

Tayla (01:05):

You just matched your brain almost. Exactly.

Sam (01:07):

I pretty much went on the exact same journey that I went on the first time.

Tayla (01:10):

Perfect. <laugh> me too. Actually. <laugh>, which was very linear for me. Very plateau. No al punishment. Don't like it <laugh>. But yeah. So today well I feel like I need to do the catchphrase.

Sam (01:34):

Yeah, I mean you can give us a bit of a background and then you can throw the catch phrase in whenever you want.

Tayla (01:38):

All right. So I get asked a lot because, because we are in a mixed faith marriage I guess is the technical term. Technically speaking. Technically speaking, we're in a mixed faith marriage. And because of that and especially because of the kind of religious community that we live in I get asked about it a lot. How did you make it work? How did you start dating? How does it work now? How does it work with having kids if do you recommend it for me? I get asked about it a lot. I don't know if you do cuz you're like the unreligious person. Very

Sam (02:16):

Rarely. And if it does happen, it's not a significant moment to my day. So I probably don't really pay much attention to it. I think I probably got asked about it before we got married leading into it. But yeah, no it's not a big part of my, And also guys, we're doing something so the conversation's about what we're doing typically. So it's not like things come

Tayla (02:39):

Up, you're not getting married so you're not gonna talk about marriage <laugh>.

Sam (02:42):

Exactly.

Tayla (02:44):

But yeah, I get asked quite a bit about it and I often am giving kind of advice and realize most of my advice is your advice <laugh> giving to people and then a little with my view, obviously put in as the religious spiritual person. But I thought it would be something that would be good to talk about. So pretty much, Babe, what do you know about mixed faith relationships?

Sam (03:11):

Wow, just so everyone knows, that is our chosen catch raises. And that was smooth. Smooth. Yeah, that was real smooth. Yes. Did

Tayla (03:20):

It. Awesome. But I was actually, so to make it less smooth, I'll backtrack a little <laugh>. I think that the topic is going to take multiple episodes because there's so many different elements to it. Yeah, for sure. So I wanna focus, maybe we'll do other episodes about it, but I do wanna focus a bit on maybe beginning mixed faith relationships, how to start it with the best chance of success and happiness on both parties. Yeah,

Sam (03:52):

For sure. That that's So what do I know about it of the

Tayla (03:57):

First and pretty much what do you know about it? As in what's your experience and your background and then maybe what would you tell other people about it?

Sam (04:05):

Okay why don't I then give a bit of a background about us or me, I guess me my religious background and then

Tayla (04:13):

You can, I don't want hear about you, I wanna hear about us. Okay. Just kidding. No, no, go for it.

Sam (04:18):

So I grew up in the church well I say the church, there's at church there is one church,

Tayla (04:25):

<laugh>. How you grew up though that there is one church, right?

Sam (04:28):

Yeah. That paradigm. So I grew up in the LDS faith. Can I say Mormon on this thing? Yeah, of

Tayla (04:34):

Course. Okay.

Sam (04:34):

Of course. I've seen mixed reviews on the word lately.

Tayla (04:38):

I think just use whatever word you want.

Sam (04:41):

So I grew up Mormon <laugh>. So I grew up Mormon in a very strong Mormon family, is how we would describe ourselves. And I went on a mission, went to church and never questioned it. I got married in the temple as they say. And then

Tayla (05:01):

Why don't you explain the religious ramifications of

Sam (05:05):

That. So we call it a celestial marriage. It's like an eternal marriage. It's like you go to the temple, you have to be 1000000%, 100% believing you have to be worthy. So keeping all the commandments, being tithing, et cetera. And so got married.

Tayla (05:26):

So the perception of a celestial marriage is just to explain is in that church marriages, normal marriages are until death do you part, right? Yeah. And then when you die or one of you dies, the marriage is over. But in this view it's like you're, the word they use is sealed. I should say we cuz I'm a woman too. <affirmative> is sealed and in member's minds it means that your marriage will last forever, even after death. Yeah. So you had that marriage. Yeah. And that's not even talking about

Sam (06:03):

Us. No, no. So I have been married before and oh sorry. Sorry, I lost, kind of lost my train of thought there. Sorry I didn't No, it's okay. So went through the whole process of being a hundred percent believing member of the church. And then I left in 2008 I think the church. The church, yeah. And nothing super dramatic, at least from my perspective, I just stopped believing. I just suddenly saw everything through a different lens. And it's a weird experience. You can no longer see the church or life through that same lens anymore once it changes. So

Tayla (06:48):

There wasn't a catalyst for it.

Sam (06:51):

Not really. I really can't put a, I suddenly saw the church as a bad organization or there was a single act. It was just literally a moment when I just started seeing it differently. So we can get into maybe the details of that in another timeframe. That's another whole rabbit hole

Tayla (07:20):

Is faith transition.

Sam (07:21):

But yeah, at the time I never had any real bad feelings towards the church. My ex-wife or wife at the time she was a hundred percent believing and she contemplating contemplated me at the time. We ended up moving to Hawaii of all places and then eventually she left the church and then we eventually divorced. We just ended up on, in the simplest of ways to describe it, on just two different pathways in life. So where am I even going with this?

Tayla (08:00):

So

Sam (08:01):

Did I end up being in a different

Tayla (08:04):

Mixed faith? Mixed faith, Yeah. Relationship, marriage.

Sam (08:06):

Yeah. All right. So long story short, I grew up in the church and then left the church and then I was single for a while and then I moved back to Utah and then I did not. So I dated other people in different faiths and

Tayla (08:23):

Out

Sam (08:23):

Right? Yeah, No faith. Faiths.

Tayla (08:26):

Faiths,

Sam (08:27):

<laugh>, ex faith. So everything. And then eventually me and you started dating and

Tayla (08:33):

To everyone's surprise,

Sam (08:35):

<laugh> surprised and we figured out how to make it work and got married and we've been figuring out how to make it work ever since. And it's honestly one of the best things I've ever done. And I'm really happy about it, the short of it. So we are a mixed faith. That's how it is. And I guess there's a caveat show when we say we're a mixed faith would still, culturally I'm still Mormon, even though I would say I'm a non believing Mormon or an ex Mormon or how, whatever the label is. But it, it's not, I would guess cause I don't really know cause I've never been it. But maybe if you grew up Jewish and you no longer believed in the Jewish religion, but you're still kind of cult culturally as much as whether you like it or not. Still Mormon in so many different ways,

Tayla (09:23):

Particularly when your family is still,

Sam (09:26):

Yeah, so my family is still very much in the church as I think the phrase is <laugh>. Sometimes I feel like maybe I've got dated church phrases, but that's my, Yeah, so they, they're still believing in the church.

Tayla (09:42):

Yeah. So I guess that probably the family culture <affirmative> is very much enmeshed with that.

Sam (09:48):

Yeah, probably 100%.

Tayla (09:50):

Okay. So what were your feelings when you were contemplating? It's just funny, The way that we kind of got together was pretty accidental,

Sam (10:02):

Very much accidental. So Tayla Tayla and I know that she feels the same way about me. We never looked at each other on the same a dating radar. Romantically. Romantically. There. We've never been in the same circles, really. Our families knew each other and that's basically

Tayla (10:19):

Right. We knew each other existed and,

Sam (10:22):

And then we just had some alone time and I really liked it. And Tayla I believe really liked it <laugh>. And so it just kind of grew from there.

Tayla (10:34):

But it was, it's for me as a super active Mormon, especially at the time, I had again been a missionary full-time, full-time supervisor at the missionary training center for the church. I worked for the church and for Brigham Young University.

Sam (10:55):

So I'm just gonna cut to the chase. It's a little bit of a no-no. What dating me was right

Tayla (11:00):

For you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It just was not only is it culturally a no-no in the community, but also very surprising of me I guess to other people, maybe even to myself to be honest. So I guess for you, what were your feelings as you contemplated, We had these couple interactions together, a couple dates and we were really enjoying it. What were your thoughts about the prospect of a potential long-term relationship with someone like me? I guess,

Sam (11:32):

Yeah. So you were the very first person that had ever dated that was a full believing member of the

Tayla (11:40):

Church since divorce, since your original, Yeah, yeah.

Sam (11:45):

And I probably a bit of both. Reason why is whether I wasn't looking in that demographic and also vice versa. The demographic doesn't look at me as someone that's like, can't date

Tayla (11:58):

You, he's on my list. Yeah,

Sam (11:59):

Yeah. There's no way. So you just kind of don't mix in that. So how I looked at it after I realized I really liked you, I was like if she were Baptist, Catholic Muslim, Jewish, I would still to give the same amount of respect to that person for their faith or lack of faith or belief and not be judgmental of it. So I would ask myself, if I was dating a Catholic person, would I, and she invited me to go to Mass and she liked going to mass, would I be like, No, no thank you. Or that's a bad thing. I would look and be like, well that's your faith yet you grew up in and that is important to you. So I will support it in how I can. So that, that's kind of how it started. And I allowed myself to be open to the idea of continuing to date.

Tayla (12:56):

So it didn't really make you nervous then?

Sam (12:59):

No, not nervous, no.

Tayla (13:01):

Cool. Yeah, <laugh>

Sam (13:06):

Love. So I guess for me the biggest thing that, the most interesting thing from my perspective is your decision to date me. Even though you knew it was a religious faux pa, almost like it, you really weren't supposed to. I know you're always accepting and you can be friendly and you can have maybe non-serious dating experiences in the church with people that don't believe of the same faith but culture really, It's really discouraged.

Tayla (13:38):

It is discouraged and I can understand why actually I don't, obviously how I think about it may not be how I'm not gonna speak to any other members and why they discourage it for me. I can see why it's discouraged in that it can be maybe a very lonely thing depending on how you can and cannot support each other. And it can depending on where your convictions are. I don't know, how do I even put this? I don't think I'm explaining this very well. But

Sam (14:14):

Yeah, it's hard to get into that mindset of back then because honestly things for us have changed so much. And that's probably one of the things I almost, maybe the first thing I would advise someone on is that be open to the relationship changing. Yeah, evolving. Yeah, evolving and not being exactly what you thought it was. For example, one of the was almost like a deal breaker if I wouldn't come to church with you. It was like, hey every it was a deal. Yeah it was. But that's kind of evolved over time as the relationship evolves, I feel like needs and wants evolve in a relationship and you kind of do your best to compromise for it. So was, I think that's the very first piece that I would actually advise. One is be open to the changing dynamic.

Tayla (15:11):

I think that's fair. And I would rare recommend getting into a mixed faith relationship with if certain things are a part of that relationship in general. <affirmative>, not necessarily just around, but I think that if you're in a supportive partnership in general and you're each willing to support each other in the ways that you want to be supported, then I actually think it's a great thing. It can push you in a lot of different ways. It can help you really learn to ask yourself, am I doing this because we're doing it together and it's convenient or do I really believe in this and wanna move forward? It can push each of you in your own ways if you have that. And I think that's why ultimately our relationship worked is because as we talked about what was important to each of us for whatever reasons, I think we both adjusted to that.

(16:04):

So an example of that is, and I said this when we were dating, is I don't wanna have to sit in a pew by myself my whole life. Especially not with a bunch of kids. I just think that's lonely and I just didn't want that. Right. And so expressing that to you you knew that it was important to me to not be alone at church. And I think for the most part when I go, you come with me, but at the same time then I needed to not project, I guess, how would I put it?

(16:47):

Requisite? No, that's not the right unfair expectations I guess. So it's not like, oh, Sam's coming to church so maybe if he comes to church and he listens, then he will change and you know what I mean? Yeah. That's not my hope. My understanding was that okay, Sam is coming to church with me specifically to be a supportive spouse because he knows it's important to me. He's coming for me. And so that was what I sought it for was an act of love. And I let it be just that rather than putting some undue expectations or burdens on you, on just me constantly wanting you to change because that's not fair either. <affirmative> is expecting, and I think this is actually something you said to me when we were dating, maybe you can speak a little bit more about it, but I remember you distinctly saying that something you had learned from your previous marriage is that you can't be with someone because you actually want to be with their potential because of who they could become. Because it's not fair to constantly be fair to you to be disappointed in that the person isn't who they could be and it's not fair to that person to be a disappointment because they're being themselves as they are now. And that really helped me with the religious side on, okay, if Sam never changes, will I still be happy with him <affirmative>? And when the answer was like, yes, actually again he is supportive, he's, he's loving, he wants me to be invested in what's important to me, including religion and parenting and all that.

(18:29):

So yeah, actually if Sam never came back to the fold so to speak, <laugh>, I would still be happy at the end of our life together. But if the answer is no, I think for people, if you have that subconscious hope that ultimately you would be disappointed at the end of your life. If a person ever changed into you hoped they could become or the potential to become, then you probably shouldn't be with that person. But I don't know, what's your brain around that?

Sam (18:57):

So honestly my brain's kind of everywhere right now.

Tayla (19:01):

I know this has been a lot more all over the place.

Sam (19:03):

Well yeah, cuz we hadn't really spoken about in preparation for this <affirmative>, we just said, Hey, let's just talk about this topic and really cool. And then we've got two kids and we are busy with so many things our lives and all of a sudden I've unlocked this moment, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's like a million pieces of how do I gather my thoughts? So purely

Tayla (19:20):

Raw. Yeah, yeah. This is very raw reaction.

Sam (19:22):

So let me rewind a little bit and help structure my thoughts. I think what helped us get off to a good start was two things. One, the fact that I had grown up LDS meant that I understood the culture, which meant that I understood why things were important to you. And I think maybe in some mixed faith relationships that isn't fully understood. So maybe they're not able to exactly know how disappointing certain actions could be or how important certain actions could be. So I think we have a leg up with that. So I know, hey, what's important baby blessings. That's a big cultural thing. So it's, I'm fully supportive of, yeah, it's bless our babies in the healthiest church. That's not a big deal to me in terms of whether I should have any sort of naked feelings towards, I'm just like, I just wanna be supportive of this. Cause I know it's important to you, it's important to your family, it's important to my family. And then the second thing, the second thing that's important to me sorry, the second thing that I think helped us get to a good start was when we first started dating, we literally on our date, 1.5.

Tayla (20:47):

Yeah

Sam (20:48):

<laugh>.

Tayla (20:48):

One point between first accidental date and real date. Yeah.

Sam (20:52):

Tayla had gone on a trip, I had gone on a trip and then when she got back she came over and

Tayla (20:58):

11:00 PM you're like, come over, <laugh>,

Sam (21:01):

Come over. And we ended up just chatting for seven hours until the sun came

Tayla (21:06):

Up until 7:00 AM

Sam (21:08):

And we just chatted about everything. And cuz we kind of just wanna lay things out in terms of expectations, concerns. And I think that really helped us go, okay, after we spoke about all that, all right, cool, I think then let's explore it. Because we felt like if there was any sort of deal breakers, deal breakers or any sort of thing that's like this won't work out be because of what we knew we were able to explore it. So I think those sorts of conversations for a mixed faith marriage are just so important because it's trying to find that foundation and common ground in the relationship. Whereas I think if you're both fully in the exact same faith, there's a foundation that I think you typically come in with morals and values and ways you see your family and the culture because there's so many understood things and there was just some worry that wasn't that common ground and I think we found it.

Tayla (22:02):

Yeah. So that's actually something that I, when I am asked about this sort of thing I bring up often is that what works so well for us is that we actually have the same values now they came come from different places and different experiences, but we both value things like honesty and generosity and kindness and family and fidelity and trustworthiness. And even when we pictured having children, how are we gonna teach them these things? We were like, oh that's easy because we have the same values that the exact same values and when we teach them we can teach our kids from each of our perspectives why we have that value so that they can, I mean I feel like that would be even an even greater way to parent a child is that this value is valuable regardless of your background and where it's coming from. So one day when we teach our kids about honesty, maybe I would teach them a little bit about our divine potential and our heavenly father and what he thinks of us and how he hopes will be. And you would talk to them about,

Sam (23:12):

Oh yes

Tayla (23:14):

What would be how you would teach your kid with about that

Sam (23:17):

Value? Yeah, exactly. You want to, how would I teach?

Tayla (23:21):

Yeah.

Sam (23:25):

Most of my values could come back to how would make you feel the being human is being empathetic, being sympathetic. And I know that I wouldn't like to have been lied to <affirmative> and that would make me sad. That would make me unhappy. And I have empathy and I don't wanna make other people sad and unhappy and that's what those actions do.

Tayla (23:52):

So we could each <affirmative> and that's something that I really loved is that we can reinforce each other's values from a lot of very different perspectives. And so that's something I would advise at the beginning is find out what your values are. So not just your beliefs because that's something you can work with, but I don't think if you don't have the same values, I don't think you'll have a successful relationship long

Sam (24:18):

Regardless of the same ar cuz I mean it can be people that have very different values, literal are the same faith

Tayla (24:23):

Always. That happens often. And that's why the divorce rates don't really change necessarily in same faith marriages, <laugh> it's the same. So that's what I would say is have those hard conversations, figuring out what are each of our values, Do they match up? Do we have the same values? Then let's go from there and talk about what informed us of those values and why we value them <affirmative>. But I do wanna you to talk about so that big conversation that we had at the beginning of our relationship where we kind of had everything out. What are some things that you remember us talking about that you would maybe recommend in a conversation like that to maybe determine stuff like that or to set up the relationship in a way that would most likely be constructive?

Sam (25:14):

Honestly, I actually don't remember specifics about it. I can remember feelings. Yeah. So I can remember feeling we were on the same page. I remember feeling like we had similar goals. I remember feeling like we had similar backgrounds and so I felt like we had so much common ground and similarities with how we viewed things which as can vary so much. So I think it's, we had probably similar upbringings and similar family, similar parents and broader family values. So I remember those feelings. But yeah, I actually, I don't remember the specifics. I think maybe

Tayla (26:03):

It was a lot

Sam (26:04):

It, I mean do you remember any of the specific Oh yeah, really. Okay. I'm excited

Tayla (26:10):

<laugh>. So one thing I remember is feeling like I could be brutally honest and that would only be to our benefit whether it ended the relationship or whether it propelled it regardless. Brutal honesty with how I feel about things is important. But that had to be, I remember feeling brutally accepting as well. I think not only about beliefs and stuff, but we talked about backgrounds and past experiences and maybe even things that we're each not proud of. We spoke about everything and I remember feeling safe to share unflattering and unattractive parts of myself. And I remember when you shared similar things that I felt very, I was a safe space for you two. And that came very naturally.

(27:11):

I think one thing that isn't maybe a specific thing that we spoke about, but it was something that guided the conversation was very equal respect from each of us. So I think something that I hadn't really felt from an unbelieving ex-Mormon before, and it's not to say that they aren't out there, I just haven't met really any was that I felt like you still respected my decision to believe in what I believed in. Yeah. It wasn't viewed, ugh, well if only you knew better or if you were smarter or if you were more honest with yourself, then you would think differently. I felt like genuinely you were like, No, I can see why you believe the way you do and why you live the way you do. And I think hopefully you felt that from me too where I was like, no, your life, you and your beliefs, you could be right. I respect what led you to your decision too. And so there wasn't this hierarchy between the two of us or does that make

Sam (28:21):

Sense? It makes, it makes total sense. And actually I'd like to speak to that for a second about why I feel felt that way or feel like that way. Cause I think it's important for maybe us, whoever listens to this in the future, whether it's just myself, <laugh> or someone else. But the reason why I felt that way, the equal footing, the equal respect is when I left and I no longer had those same beliefs. I looked back at myself as an active believing Mormon. I respected that person. I thought I was a good person, I thought I was a smart person. I thought I was a valiant person as they would we would say. And to this day still look at my family who are all believing I respect them. And I think they're smart people. I think they're amazing people. So I think it would be shortsighted to look at people in the church after you left with any sort of loss of respect.

Tayla (29:36):

And I sadly don't think that I thought that way about members all the time. And again, that's just a maturity issue. It is. But at the time that we started, I think more important than what you had left was how you had left. And just as I would be as critical of someone who hadn't left but was still an asshole or whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah. I guess that's another thing that I didn't expect but that I really do recommend, especially if you are the religious person in a relationship starting out, is that I think it's fair to expect to be supported in the ways that you want to. Whether it's, Hey will you attend church with me every week? Even though you don't believe, will you support me in this way? Or hey, I want to tithe my money. Is that something you will be okay with?

Sam (30:35):

Yeah, there's a lot of fun things like specifics maybe we can get into in future podcasts like that. Yeah, we've literally had to have a conversation about every little thing as it happens and being open to what the end result can be. So just that little example of the taring thing, money <laugh>, it was a conversation, Tayla said, Hey, I would like us to pay Taring. And so I thought about it, I was like, Yeah, I'm open to that. And then I thought about it a little bit longer. I was like, well I'm okay if you pay tithing on the money you bring in, but I would prefer not to pay it from my salary or

Tayla (31:08):

Whatever. Well I don't even know if you remember this because it has been most of our marriage, we have both been working and so it hasn't been an issue. But when we were first married I was actually working and so you were making a lot more and you actually, the way that we kind of worked it out or that you suggested was like, okay, pay a full tithe on what you make and at least half of what I make is also yours. So you can pay tithing on 50% of what I make as well. And that's what I did for a while. And then when I worked full-time and had a salary equal to yours, it just became a non thing and I just paid it on my own. But yeah, you have to be able to get into those nitty gritties I think as you're building a relationship or it's a lot easier to maintain expectations than to spring them on someone and be like, Well I didn't even know that that's something you wanted of me.

(32:01):

It's not fair. But to that, if you're the religious person, it is fair to expect to be supported in the ways you wanted to be supported. However, and this is something that I had to very quickly be like, Oh you have to be willing to support then your partner in the ways that they want to be supported too. If you expect them to budge and give and adjust to you and your lifestyle and your religion and your spirituality, you need to be willing to do the same. And so that kind of, I don't know why, I just was like, Oh, and it's probably again an immaturity. I'm on the pedestal, you adjust to me. But I very quickly learned, well how unfair is that for me to only expect Sam to constantly be adjusting to my lifestyle and my beliefs, but for me to never be willing to do that for you too. So for example, I remember us having a discussion about spending how to spend Sundays. Do you remember that?

Sam (33:03):

I do. Well I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember the outcome which is like, hey, I would love it if times we could just skip church and we just go hiking or we'll go into the mountains or go to a lake or something. Cuz for me the equivalent of spirituality at church would be being outside of nature. I feel so connected. I feel so happy. Re-energizes myself. I, I'm pretty introverted so being around a lot of people at church is actually just draining. Not as much just being a church. It's like I have to get

Tayla (33:36):

Through so many friendly people. <laugh>,

Sam (33:38):

I have to get dressed, I have to put on a smiley face,

Tayla (33:43):

Be proper. Be proper, keep the kids quiet,

Sam (33:45):

Keep the kids quiet. So it's a whole thing. And then I go, but the alternative, I could go to the river and we could sit and listen to the river. To me, I'm already lighting up just thinking about it or I'm being playing golf recently and I'm like, Tayla, let's go golfing. That's where my head's at in terms of that sort of fulfillment and just, I know you're gonna go back to it, but just recently Tayla's just been so supportive of our Sundays now because she's just been so open to, hey, if just come to separate meeting or go to the church for an hour and depending on the Sunday and then you go play golf afterwards, here's your reward. Thank you so much.

Tayla (34:32):

You go rejuvenate in your way.

Sam (34:34):

And I do, I feel very fulfilled going out and playing golf. It's hits a lot of things. I get to be physical, it's kind of a sport and it's out in nature. It's

Tayla (34:42):

Perfect. I was gonna say, my prediction is every episode at some point golf will be mentioned because you are obsessed

Sam (34:51):

As it should.

Tayla (34:53):

My reals algorithm is golf now because <laugh>, we talk about it so much I keep sending them to

Sam (35:01):

You and then on Sunday mornings or even Saturday mornings, golf does come up on the TV and you even ask for it now.

Tayla (35:07):

So I do, I don't even know who I am. But yeah, I just think if you expect to be supported you have to be willing. You both need to give a little to support each other. Yeah.

Sam (35:22):

What were the specifics of that Sunday? I'm curious cause the Sunday discussion, cause I've a lot of these things I remember the general outcome and the general feelings, but I've, I just throw the details in the trash and just kind of move on.

Tayla (35:35):

I talk a lot so I get it. <laugh>,

Sam (35:38):

No, I,

Tayla (35:39):

It's a lot to store in your memory from

Sam (35:41):

Me. I think trash is the wrong word, but the recycling bin on the Mac, <laugh>

Tayla (35:45):

<laugh>. So I remember at the very beginning, that was my expectation. I was like, I want you to commit to coming with me to church every week. And you were like, Yeah, that's fine. We got married and it became a once a month, maybe twice a month thing. And in my brain I was so disappointed cuz I was like, you lied to me. You don't wanna come to, you're not remembering it

Sam (36:10):

<laugh>. No, I remember this but I don't remember I getting, I think what it is that you'd just get burnt out. It's every

Tayla (36:16):

Week. No. And obviously looking back I see that so differently. I guess I'm think I'm speaking from my perspective at the time where I was like, oh my gosh, he lied to me. He's not supporting me. I have to go sit alone. It's the one thing I told him I didn't wanna do is be alone at church. And then, I don't know, we finally had a big discussion on it a few months later and I think that's where I realized that I wasn't being a good partner back. And so that's when we spoke about, okay, what is important to you about Sundays then? And you said, well regardless of the religious side, things that really were important to me was family and connection and being out as you said in nature. And then at that point you asked me, Would you be willing to support me in that sometimes?

(37:05):

And if we feel like this would be better for our family or better for us to rejuvenate as a family, would you be willing to do that instead? And again, culturally I was like, No, you have to go every Sunday. But then I looked into my heart and I was like, I think that is a very fair ask and that's something that I became, I put a lot less emotional energy into you giving me what I had asked for and being really patient when Sam just doesn't want to come this week and it doesn't mean he doesn't support me. But at the same time, and it's actually funny, I feel like when I relieved you of the burden of that expectation, you actually just started coming a lot more often.

Sam (37:54):

Yeah. I think it's because I, I'd get that Sunday to a specific sentence to recharge and so I'm like, I'm got social energy <affirmative>, I can be at church and I can, I don't. Yeah, exactly.

Tayla (38:07):

Yeah. So I do think that we've adjusted, actually I would say most of the time we fit both in. It's not necessarily one or the other, but at the same time we just kind of prioritize who needs it this week more or as a family unit rather than individually how do we wanna connect with God or the universe or nature or whatever.

Sam (38:33):

I think. So I try to follow your lead on Sundays. Yeah,

Tayla (38:37):

You do.

Sam (38:39):

Because I know that it's not like you have church on other days. Literally you have a specific timeframe on Sundays where you're able to get that fulfillment. So I try to follow your lead on it and if the week's being horrible and then Saturday's also horrible for me, then it's like I have zero energy in the battery I haven't recharged. And then it's harder to do that on Sunday obviously. I'm like, Hey, you go even

Tayla (39:08):

Always yeah you, you've never asked,

Sam (39:09):

Leave the kids here, you can leave the kids here, I'll take care of the kids but I need to stay here. That's where my head's at during the week like that. But if I'm work was just fine this week and on Saturday I got to watch a rugby or whatever and I'm feeling good, then it's like, yeah,

Tayla (39:24):

Hey, or I get to go to golf in the afternoon. Exactly.

Sam (39:27):

Or golf in the afternoon, then Sunday rolls around and then I'm like, sure,

Tayla (39:31):

I'm here at four now

Sam (39:32):

I'm feeling great. Let's go to church actually for when I have social capacity, church is great. I, especially with the kids now a lot of times just spending time with Ella and taking care of her for the most part, keeping

Tayla (39:51):

Her in a pew

Sam (39:52):

<laugh> and then when they do the sacraments, it's not, it's quiet time. And I use that to reflect on the week and reflect how I'm feeling. And I use that as almost meditation moment. I mean what look, it's only five, 10 minutes of that quiet time. But it, it's nice.

Tayla (40:07):

Yeah. So I'm just thinking of our Sundays and our early marriage and I think before I had this realization of you have to give and take. I put a lot of you on Sundays, it wasn't just church. I was like, And you have to be with my family for three hours every Sunday where my parents will feed us. And we've adjusted to that too, I feel. And so absolutely, again, that's another value <laugh> that you have to be willing to have those really hard conversations on. What do you value more family time or personal time and why? And we're very different in that where our family cultures are different but also extroversion and introversion. Is that even the right way to say that? I sure it sounds proper. So

Sam (40:55):

I don't know English very well.

Tayla (40:57):

<laugh> as your only language that you speak. <laugh>, I am dod. But we're different in that way, <affirmative>. And so again, just having that understanding of it's not that he doesn't my family and doesn't wanna spend, it's literally what is he is valuing his time to recharge more because that's how he's gonna cope with the next week. And I value my time with my family because to be honest, it's now that I have kids especially they love to see my kids and I love to have my kids be loved on. And also my mom's a hell of a cook. So

Sam (41:31):

Your mom's a great cook and your family is great, really good people.

Tayla (41:35):

And I try to explain that when we had Justin, I had to explain that to my family too. Its the family culture is different. Not every family is this intense or seeing each other all time. And it doesn't mean Sam doesn't wanna be here and doesn't, it means that this is what he is going to prioritize.

Sam (41:52):

And actually speaking to your family, one of the things that was very, very positive for me was your family's acceptance of me when we were dating and then when we got married, they were so supportive, which is not usual in terms of having your daughter marry someone that has left the church. So they were very supportive. At least to me

Tayla (42:18):

They were. Yeah. So think why do you think they were

Sam (42:25):

So I can speak from my side of things. I'm not very antagonistic against the church. I'm not very vocal about any sort of negative feelings or things that I don't agree with or believe with. And I try to give a lot of space for other people to believe and to express opinions. So I think that helps. So it feels like they don't feel like they're on the defensive to start. They don't feel like, yeah, you're looking down on me for one, two, I don't

Tayla (42:50):

Think ever.

Sam (42:51):

Yeah, yeah. Two, you're not seen as combative. I try not to be combative. So I think that was good starts. And also they knew my family and they liked each other a lot. So I think they just had hoped I'd bring a lot of those similar values, my perspective. So I'm sure there's many perspectives to it.

Tayla (43:15):

Yeah, I remember talking to my mom because it's funny, she'd actually, especially now that I'm a mother, I realize no one has invested more in me than my mom just to grow me and get me to adulthood. It's a hell of a thing. So she obviously is the most invested in my happiness until obviously we've been married. So I trusted her opinion a lot on dating and stuff. And there had been a bunch of guys that she liked or didn't like and she would always tell me. So it's not she was ever afraid to say, I don't know about this person. In fact, just before we saw dating there was, she was like, there's this one guy we weren't really dating but, and she said to me, there isn't really a reason I can't pinpoint it, but something just didn't feel right. And I trusted that wasn't the only reason, but I didn't pursue that relationship cuz I really trusted my mom's intuition.

(44:10):

And when it came to you she just was like, everything's on paper. It's telling me I shouldn't support the relationship. But I think she was looking very much at who you are and that made her feel really comfortable. And that's the word she would use a lot is feeling comfortable. And I think it's because she looked at you as a person, but if you wanna get into the spiritual side as a son of God, in her mind, regardless of your decisions, she saw who you were in your heart, even in her paradigm, even if it wasn't yours. And she knew Sam's a good person, he's an honest person, he's kind like he's gonna support Tayla. They're a good match. And I think that made it easier for them to accept you. Your family obviously was totally down for us to get married.

Sam (45:04):

<laugh>. Oh yeah. They were so excited So excited. Me and Tayla were little story, little sad story. Me and Tayla were dating not actually super long not at all. But it was one of those bridges I wanted to cross early meet my family. So you can see where I come from. Might give you some context and perspective. So my family all lived in Texas at the time. We flew out to Texas and the very first five minutes of meeting my parents, my dad who is I would use, I'm gonna use the word very spiritual,

Tayla (45:43):

Very,

Sam (45:43):

Very spiritual. And for him it was a very spiritual moment, meeting you in person and he was already talking about us being married and he knew we'd get married. He was crying from the moment, which is a very, for the non-religious listeners it's a spiritual moment crying cuz it's you feel the spirits and it's confirmation. Oh wow.

Tayla (46:07):

Yeah.

Sam (46:08):

So for him, me and you had become Facebook friends a year earlier and he saw that on Facebook or something and from that moment he said he knew he'd get married,

Tayla (46:18):

Which we weren't even friends, we weren't

Sam (46:20):

Like <laugh> tail had just got back from mission and had added me because I said no to go to a movie as

Tayla (46:26):

A person or something. Yeah.

Sam (46:28):

But anyways, so there's a level of spiritual intensity that my family has and so they brought that to the table from that side

Tayla (46:40):

And I think they're just happy that you didn't end up with some crazy person cuz you had been living in Miami before you came and I can only imagine the dating pool there would be very interesting.

Sam (46:51):

Just so I haven't introduced any person besides you to my parents ever.

Tayla (46:57):

Is it because of your parents or because of the people you were dating?

Sam (47:02):

<laugh>, A little bit of everything

Tayla (47:05):

But yeah, I felt very accepted very early on. Even though again we do have quite an age difference too. Even something we've even gotten into

Sam (47:13):

Next time on

Tayla (47:15):

<laugh>

Sam (47:15):

Dragon ballsy.

Tayla (47:17):

But yeah, dragon ballsy <laugh> that is such, Is that your childhood dragon? Ballsy Pokemon.

Sam (47:27):

It's a phrase from this old cartoon.

Tayla (47:30):

I know that. Did you have Yugo when you were

Sam (47:34):

Growing up? We did, yes.

Tayla (47:35):

Okay. I did too. I didn't know you

Sam (47:37):

Vo for my drop guard. Yeah.

Tayla (47:39):

Nice. Yeah, I guess so. I'm gonna flip this on you cuz you did this to me last time is like to kind of tie it up in a bow.

Sam (47:50):

Are we there yet? Have we gotten there? That was that quick. Oh my gosh.

Tayla (47:53):

Do you have other things to say? No,

Sam (47:55):

I mean a million things. I have a million things to say.

Tayla (47:58):

That's

Sam (47:58):

Why I'm looking at the to and we're like, well in this, yeah,

Tayla (48:01):

This happens to us every time. So

Sam (48:04):

I feel like I've just barely started scratching and we're about to get to the meat of it next time on Dragon ballsy

Tayla (48:11):

<laugh> and we probably will, cuz again this will be multiple segments. So to tie it in a bow advice you would give to someone who is beginning a mixed faith relationship. And maybe if there isn't anything, if there's something that you weren't able to mention, like you can

Sam (48:33):

Yeah, sure. So

Tayla (48:34):

Slide it in there

Sam (48:34):

Too, man. How to organize my thoughts here. I would say the very first thing that you should do is spend time by yourself and really think about what's important to yourself. So whether you have to write down an actual list. For me, I have adhd, so writing things down is very important was I'll think about a million things. So write it all down. But definitely know and list what's important to you for yourself in a person. The next would be to have that discussion with your partner or the person you started dating or the person that you're interested in dating. I know also you don't wanna scare people off, so maybe you can ease into it as you get to know them

Tayla (49:20):

But I do feel like

Sam (49:22):

Don't go too far into it without getting there.

Tayla (49:25):

Don't play games. And I think that's something I liked about, I just felt like we didn't wait a certain amount of time to text each other back because that's, we just what it was just true authenticity. Yeah.

Sam (49:38):

So I guess the audience repeating to are people that are interested in a long term term relationship. So have that conversation. The third would be to be open to a slightly different picture than you had built for yourself. Growing up as a kid you're like, you've been taught a lot of things and you're, whether it's culturally, whether it's family, whether it's religiously got this picture of what your partner's gonna be and what the future's gonna look like and be open to variations of that.

Tayla (50:15):

It's great

Sam (50:15):

Advice. And then like I said at the very beginning, I think be open to that now that you open things changing as your relationship goes on. And if anything this relationship has taught me is be kind and patient and be open to those changes because yeah life's a journey. It really is. I've changed a lot since we've started dating and being married and now I have kids. Mean just having kids. Things change a lot. Your priorities change a lot, your so many things change. Bandwidth.

Tayla (50:52):

Bandwidth,

Sam (50:53):

Time and what's important changes a lot. So be open to that and work together. I think always trying to see it as one unit. We can get into so many different things we're talking about. We are a team. That's how I've always seen it. So I mean dumb little things. We always have joint bank accounts and we have shared money. There's so many different things that we can get into in other topics and other time. But the general ideas, you are a team. Yeah.

Tayla (51:22):

So have the discussions as if that was true. Yeah. Instead of me versus you, me trying to convince you. It's like, no, we're already on the same team. We just need to figure out who should be positioned where and how we work

Sam (51:35):

Together. Yeah, exactly.

Tayla (51:36):

Yeah, I love that.

Sam (51:38):

Yeah, I'm excited to keep talking about this next time. It's gonna listen to this podcast a few times and make sure that it's Man I I've, there's so much to talk about.

Tayla (51:48):

Yeah. Is, yeah, I think that's a good way to, Yeah, my advice on top of that would just be like, you have to have the discussions about specifics. You have to go there. You have to be willing to just talk everything out as much as you can. Again, it doesn't have to always be heavy and intense, your whole relationship, but I do think picture, as you said, your life and how you want it to be. And then be like, Hey, this is how I'm picturing being able to volunteer in the church and stuff. Is that okay with you? How will you support that? And vice versa. Yeah. Just be willing to talk it through

Sam (52:28):

And be honest in your answers. In your answers in response. If it's not gonna work, it's not gonna work. And that's the attitude. We came into it <affirmative>, we would love it to work, but if it's not, then

Tayla (52:39):

We'd rather have that now or rather than a heartbreak down the road.

Sam (52:43):

Yeah, exactly.

Tayla (52:44):

Yeah. So be very honest with what you will be okay with and what you won't be okay with. Yeah,

Sam (52:52):

Yeah. Good job.

Tayla (52:53):

Be true to that. Know itself. Be true. A Shakespeare for you. I gotta throw in some Shakespeare.

Sam (52:59):

It's in the Book of Mormon

Tayla (53:01):

Shakespeare, <laugh> Full. Well, it's not, no, it's a little too raunchy for that. With Shakespeares <laugh>. A lot of Leary. I don't actually know if that's the right word, but I was like,

Sam (53:18):

Well thanks to really appreciate

Tayla (53:19):

It. Yeah thanks. It was great to pick your brain and see how much you don't remember about our conversation. <laugh>, apparently. Everything. Cool.

Sam (53:33):

Thank you for listening to

Tayla (53:35):

Babe. What do you know about,

Sam (53:38):

If you'd like to hear more from us, please remember to rate, subscribe and review.

Speaker 3 (53:42):

Three Two One. Yeah.